Is tracing cheating?

[s.winders]

Nothing Ross,theres nothing wrong with that [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


So it looks like the people who brought this fraud angle in were simply jealous of his talent,reference or not.I would also asume that if it was not about photo reference the same people would find something else to moan about in his work...tall poppy syndrome.


Stu.

[gidgit]

Hey, what a great thread...

Tracing, copying, cloning, what have you... all permissible, providing that the source is not obtained via theft...

That said, I believe there are still basic guidelines which a good artist will adhere to and that set the good apart from the not so good...

IMHO, the end result must reflect it's own unique perspective...

Having said this, I would suppose that much depends on what the end result is to be...

For instance... you take a royalty free stock photo, apply some cool effects thus changing such into a grafx of sort that will be used on a page providing a theme to the particular subject of said page... this is utility art at best, and will never be looked upon as classic art form...

on the other hand, you create, using a source and/or from the mind, a masterpiece too good to simply be deemed as utility art...well, it is open to scrutiny and interpretation of the beholder just how this piece fares...

I would suggest that the more pure the source, the greater the value placed upon worx created...

It is ultimately up to the artist to have integrity, ethics... the worx should eliminate the need to question... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Judi A]

Ahem! Ross I think using a photo as a reference vs. using a photo to trace are entirely two different things.

Photos used as a reference are sometimes the only way to go. Say you are doing a portrait of a celbritry or head of state. If you are lucky the person will maybe have time for a few sittings and the artist has to take mega photos to "refer to" to complete the picture.

As far as actually tracing I cannot pass judgement as to it being cheating, but it sure does say something about the artist's lack of drawing skills and lack of ability to really see what you are looking at and trnaslate that onto paper or canvas.

[bmh216]

There are times when my son will bring me a picture, and I immediately say "you traced that". He always fesses up, but just looking at the picture I can tell it was traced. I know his level of drawing skill, and the tracings surpass it. Easily seen as "cheating", and he thinks so too.

What about Andy Warhol? Did he cheat on that Marilyn Monroe pic? Or is that just "pop-art"?

This discussion could last forever [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Brett

[dalel]

For instance, using a plugin to get an effect you could not do yourself with your graphics program. You are cheating yourself of the ability you might gain by learning to do it with your own skills.

If you are practical and goal-oriented, that might not matter, only the results. I feel I cheat myself of gaining better drawing skills when I trace, but I will often do it anyway for expediency, because I enjoy the other aspects of creating art more than drawing.


Eye Site Web Design
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll

[Ross Macintosh]

You use the graphics program you bought are you cheating yourself because you didn't code the program yourself? Of course not.

Traditionally painters had to manufacture their own paint. When you paint using tubes of purchased paint are you cheating yourself? Of course not.

When Andy Warhol created powerful art using photo-mechanical technology was he cheating? Of course not.

Some things we do may feel like "cheating" because we know others may be deceived by the results and incorrectly assume we did something we are not competent to do. The process makes us feel like frauds. That comes down to how we see 'talent' and how comfortable we are with ourselves. For many artists it is a constant struggle with their egos. Artists are notoriously insecure or egomanical - Sometimes alternating between both extremes. Again, I think the reason has to do with the culturally pounded in fallacy of "talent" that shapes us from our first childhood creative endeavors.

The whole paradigm is based on the exclusiveness of creative ability. Our culture highly values creativity but sees it as a magic gift to be packaged and controlled. In contrast, I believe creativity is a basic human trait - one that is to our great detriment, repressed by cultural influences in the vast majority. It is sad.

If you set aside society's expectations - and don't give a damn what you think others think - then concepts of artistic cheating fall apart, for you at least. Cheating requires a perpetrator and a victim. If you don't make a victim of yourself, or of those who view your art, then there is no cheating. Such an artist has freedom to create unencumbered by creativity-deadening influences of society. Such an artist doesn't cheat - even when doing things others perceive as cheating.

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

[Crow Haven]

for learning and performing music...think about all the works that are played that are not of the performer's own composing...there may be some variations and differences in style...but people don't get after you for playing another's composition...

Why is it so different for children to practice drawing by using examples to learn from? I don't know how it got started, but the "tracing is bad" is entrenched in the schools. If you take up music you are spared this treatment...I escaped via piano... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya

[Gary David Bouton]

I've gotten some static from XARA purists in the past about using my own modeling work as the basis for a drawing.

Now, is it cheating if you trace over what you yourself created? The bottom image was done in XARA and I deliberately rendered the models in wireframe to create a visual difference here as an example.

Cheating??? Hmmm???

My Best,

Gary David Bouton
Gary@GaryDavidBouton.com
Free education! The Writings Web site
and the updated GaryWorld Gallery is pretty okay, too.

[Erik Heyninck]

If you feel in your own heart that what you do is not pure -mind I don't talk about a standard you have to live up to or some crap you learned "on the road" by sheep, wolf, dog or sheperd, then don't do it. Simple as that. But if you feel it is pure, then let them squak, talk, babble and be jealous. No-one can tell anyone else what to do with her/his life before his/her own life is as clear as a limpid spring.

[Crow Haven]

your models and use of Xara could be considered any sort of problem!!! There is some sort of "rule" I guess that the Xara Gallery wants just 100% Xara-created images posted there...I haven't seen this "rule" written up but it would seem that's the general feeling. I have used several aps together on lots of things but felt I couldn't post them there because they weren't "all-Xara" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] and the others and moderators would not like that.

Your creations, no matter what techniques you used, are your own---if the image doesn't create some sort of copyright violation (there's a messy topic!) then who cares what you used!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya