Making curve with Smooth join

[tonylondon]

Have I got this right? Comparing JET's description with the pen tool (preferred over the shape tool) yields the following:
1. Click to place a cornerPoint. Drag to place a curvePoint. You should NOT have to press a key (much less click a button) to change between placing corner and anchor points. [Designer Pro's Pen--the one Xara acts ashamed of--does this]
2. Press a modifier key during drag to break the outgoing handle of a curvePoint independent of the incoming (thereby making it a corner with extended handles). [Xara doesn't do this and yes, that would be a great improvement]
3. Back-editing. By this I mean at any time while drawing a path, go back to alter the handles of already-drawn segments, as long as the path is still selected. [Xara does this]
4. Resume: By this I mean that after performing any back-editing, the Pen is still poised to resume drawing from where it left off, as if it had never been interrupted. [Xara requires you to click back on the last point]
5. Ending a path should not require pressing a key. Best treatment is doubleClicking when placing the endpoint of an open path. [Xara requires either Esc or the selection of another tool]
6. Tapping Delete should delete the last-placed point and cause the previous one to be selected and the point from which resume occurs. You should be able to "back up" segment by segment, all the way to the first point by tapping Delete. [Xara does this to the active point; if the last point, the previous point is not selected?]
7. The active point (the last one placed) should look like it is selected and should act like it is selected. [In Xara the active point looks and acts selected but is not necessarily the last one placed]

[JET]

Frank, I didn't come here and throw personal insults at anyone. You did. If you're bored with my posts, don't read them.

JET

[JET]

Have I got this right?...

1. Click to place a cornerPoint. Drag to place a curvePoint. You should NOT have to press a key (much less click a button) to change between placing corner and anchor points. [Designer Pro's Pen--the one Xara acts ashamed of--does this]

Yes. Click for a corner, drag for a curve is the beginning principle of what long ago became and still is the near-universal interface for Bezier path drawing. But Designer Pro's Pen stops there. That's the problem. All the other needed functionality for editing as-you-go is missing. Trust me, this will be a deal-breaker for the majority of users proficient in mainstream programs (Illustrator, Draw, Canvas, Inkscape, Fireworks, Photoshop) and even less mainstream ones (DrawPlus).

Also believe this: I'm all for innovation. The entire 2D vector drawing segment has been caught in the doldrums for decades, due primarily to the market dominance of Illustrator. I see great value in Designer Pro, and champion it often even in the Illustrator forums. It is probably the most "polished" of the newer "upstart" offerings (those outside the historic main players, Illustrator, FreeHand, Draw, Canvas). But the lack of a fully fleshed-out Pen tool is its Achille's heel.

Meanwhile, Xara and some of its vested-interest devotees bad-mouth the longstanding defacto standard interface for this, championing the Shape Editor as if it's some kind of "breakthrough." So if someone can show me how that's true, I'm all ears. So far as I can tell, it's just another implementation of the "bendomatic" method which I described in detail earlier, which has been around since the 80s, and which I certainly value. In fact I champion it, too. But it is not a viable replacement for the "standard" quadratic Bezier drawing interface. Once you've gained a little proficiency with the mainstream treatment, click-drag-click-drag is simply more fluid and efficient than click-edit-click-edit-click-edit-click-edit or click-click-click-click-edit-edit-edit-edit. Auto-creation of curve handles that you continually have to go back and adjust just doesn't cut it.

Again, I'm all for dramatic innovation. I'm not the least bit afraid of learning a different vector drawing interface. I do it all the time. And this segment of the graphics market is sorely in need of serious innovation. (Face it. This is the 21st century and all the current vector drawing programs do pretty much the same old mediocre things.) Inkscape's Spiro Spline is an example of interesting innovation. But it's nubile, and the Inkscape org presents it as such; it doesn't abandon the Pen or proclaim that Spiro Spline is superior to it.

3. Back-editing. By this I mean at any time while drawing a path, go back to alter the handles of already-drawn segments, as long as the path is still selected. [Xara does this]

No, Xara does this in its "bendomatic"-like Shape Editor; not in its Pen. It's the combination of (A) cornerClick curveDrag and (B) elegant and convenient back-editing that is powerfully efficient. But Xara has effectively separated those two core interface elements between two individual tools--the very opposite of elegance. As a result, Designer Pro lacks a primary path drawing tool that is at least on par with what has long been the mainstream functionality.

If Xara wants to win more long-experienced "converts," this has got to be addressed.

JET

[tonylondon]

Thank you

[Big Frank]

its not that your posts bore me
its that i cant figure out where you get this "i am so damn right" attitude when you are clearly just stating an opinion
just to check iwasnt maybe being terribly unfair to you
i just launched xdp and tested the pen tool, yuk horrible thing
then i launched illustrator and used its pen tool, more options dont make it any less yukky
then went back to xara and did the same exercise with the shape tool
and it certainly isnt perfect ill make do with it if its that or the pen tool
so thats just my lowly opinion ofc
but im still waiting for something reasonable from you to move me from it

[JET]

...its not that your posts bore me...

Then maybe you should think before you speak:

...you're boring me immensely...

As for "attitude" I'm not particularly fond of yours either, Frank. And I'm not interested in arguing with people who can't speak calmly to the points of discussion but only respond with personal insults and attacks. And I'm sure not here to jump through special hoops for you.

Again, if you don't like my posts don't read them.

JET