Xara Designer Pro X9 - Workflow for Accurate Prints?

[=Austin=]

I primarily do web work, but occasionally I do print work - not often enough for Adobe's CC to be cost effective.

I have several ideas for using primarily DPX in a workflow for accurate color in prints from CMYK presses.

Workflow 1)

1. Get a swatch book from the printers of what their press prints given certain CMYK values from the CMYK color space (such as from a CMYK PDF/X)
   
   • This takes into account any processing of the color on their end if they were given a CMYK PDF
2. Create a graphic in DPX, using the color swatches as reference for the CMYK values to use (using only the CMYK color model for colors)
   
   • sRGB Photographs shouldn't be an issue since they usually fit within the CMYK Gamut , accurately converted using Relative Colorimeter
3. Export the graphic in CMYK color as a PDF/X
4. Send the PDF to the printer

Workflow 2)

1. Get the printer's ICC profile
2. Make the graphic in DPX or PGD using sRGB or CMYK
3. Convert it to CMYK (if needed) and soft-proof it with the ICC in a secondary program (I have yet to identify what this program would be)
4. Export the graphic in CMYK color as a PDF/X
5. Send the PDF to the printer

The first workflow would support Pantone colors, depending on DPX's pantone support. A swatch book would probably be a good idea for the second workflow as well. If unavailable, one could simply make a swatch book to have the printer print out to know what CMYK values in DPX would translate to what colors on the press.

Although I have been reading a lot on the subject, I am new to print and color management. I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
Thank you!

[mwenz]

Hi Austin,

Either work-flow is fine. If a given print establishment has pdf profiles, I either use theirs or alter the settings already available in whatever application I am using. Both work-flows support Pantone colors.

As regards proofing, I always proof in Acrobat. Have since their has been an Acrobat that supported such a thing--a whole lot of years. I look at densities and look at the actual color values. I almost always use swatch books, never had one printed off by a printer. All decent offset establishments will also have calibrated equipment and their actual values shouldn't deviate from what I design on-screen in Xara nor in read in the PDF by more than a percent or so for the CMYK values. Do always get a blue-line for large runs, and check the press run as well for anything important.

Take care, Mike

[gwpriester]

Sounds like it would work pretty well.

I have used Designer Pro and before that Xara X+ for creating 4 color print work. I export to PDF/X using the latest version of the PDF/X filter. And things generally print fine.

Also changing to Window > Show Printer Colors > Simulate Printer Colors gives a slightly better idea how certain colors will print. At first the colors seem muted and dull but this is due to the more limited range of colors that can be printed in CMYK. For a good overview on color read Looking Good in Color

[=Austin=]

Hi Austin,

Either work-flow is fine. If a given print establishment has pdf profiles, I either use theirs or alter the settings already available in whatever application I am using. Both work-flows support Pantone colors.

As regards proofing, I always proof in Acrobat. Have since their has been an Acrobat that supported such a thing--a whole lot of years. I look at densities and look at the actual color values. I almost always use swatch books, never had one printed off by a printer. All decent offset establishments will also have calibrated equipment and their actual values shouldn't deviate from what I design on-screen in Xara nor in read in the PDF by more than a percent or so for the CMYK values. Do always get a blue-line for large runs, and check the press run as well for anything important.

Take care, Mike

I didn't know that Acrobat could apply ICC profiles for soft proofing. I'll definitely look into it. Proofing densities is a great thing to do that I hadn't even thought of. Does Acrobat let you tweak the CMYK curves for tweaking color densities without manually changing colors?

Process Color swatches are a good idea. I'll have to check if the printer is calibrated. Either way, a set like this would be nice to have on hand.


Thank you for your input.

[=Austin=]

Sounds like it would work pretty well.

I have used Designer Pro and before that Xara X+ for creating 4 color print work. I export to PDF/X using the latest version of the PDF/X filter. And things generally print fine.

Also changing to Window > Show Printer Colors > Simulate Printer Colors gives a slightly better idea how certain colors will print. At first the colors seem muted and dull but this is due to the more limited range of colors that can be printed in CMYK. For a good overview on color read Looking Good in Color

I've already been to that link. XD I haven't looked at the book, though. What topics does the book discuss? As a traditional artist, I have studied color theory (especially regarding the CMY color wheel unlike most artists) and color schemes. I have also studied the eyes perception of color. I am also familiar with the psychology of colors, but not much beyond color theory related to color schemes. I have a moderate understanding of color spaces: what they are, how they are managed (technically, not necessarily practically), and how they are converted (such as rendering intents). Now, color density as mwenz mentioned was somewhat new to me, so I had to look it up (I didn't know it was the artist's issue to deal with rather than the printer's issue). It's hard for me to know what I haven't learned, but I probably know the basics.

I ran a little test. I made two squares of the same color, one with CMYK and one with RGB. When exporting to CMYK, both values were altered. It appears as though ALL values (regardless of color model) are directly mapped when exporting to a color space, preserving values while altering actual colors, which makes sense since the colors are clearly different. Anyway, the resulting CMYK export looked extremely close to the print colors simulation. That's pretty cool.

[Albacore]

Mike in the UK we don't use "Blueline", at all in my experience, all done using digital proofs in full colour. As far as I know from my industrial experience back in the 60's as an engineer making jigs and pattern's we had to sign off drawings which were bluelines with red pens and draughtsman used yellow was the same method used in print? Totally agree with Mike about using Acro Pro for proofing one of the few programmes that pays for itself made by Adobe. A small point here is about using only PDF/X 1-a is that the output must be flattened before exporting while PDF/X 3 doesn't or is that just my reading of the output intent.

[mwenz]

PDFX-3 is a format that even Adobe recommends against using. Unfortunately, POD places still insist on using it. If there is transparency on a page, chances are there are color conversions of the managed RGB elements and changes to some CMYK elements. It also flattens transparency. PDFX-3 will also always be output as CMYK. In my view, it is also a poor format for using.

PDFX-4 is what ought to be used as flattening happens at the rip, color profiles are passed through to the RIP properly. Unfortunately, Xara does not support PDFX-4.

Which for professional print work leaves us with using PDFX-1a (or PDF 1.7 and using Native in the color drop down if you wish to maintain RGB data) in Xara. Which overall is just fine regardless of flattening but there can be oddities that show up, usually in ID for some reason, but sometimes in other applications. Acrobat will show the issue 99% of the time so it should be able to get caught. Even so, offset printing will usually not pass through the oddities, digital presses usually will unless one is using PDFX-4.

PDFX-1a really shouldn't be changing cmyk values. At least by more than a percent or so under certain circumstances. There will always be rounding at the PDF in case the CMYK in Xara is not entered as whole numbers. This happens/can happen in every application. It means little to nothing at the press.

I'll try to attach a portion of a PDF color swatch I have made. It should be self explanatory. If you check it in Acrobat, you'll see that there is zero shift--at least if I have properly changed the Yellow values in every square thus far. The swatch "book" isn't finished yet, but is intended for people here to use for their local printer to output. One day I'll finish it.

Also, all color will hit the PDF as DeviceX...DeviceCMYK, DeviceRGB, DeviceGray. ICC profiles are not passed through. This also is not an issue in the scheme of things. The screen shot is an output from XDP using CMYK and RGB using the PDF 1.7 (Reader 8) profile and selecting Native in the drop down.

Color Swatch Books.
http://www.tintbooks.com/

I had more to write...but have gotten called away 3 times and need to run an errand.

Mike

[mwenz]

A further thought.

Xara products are not color managed. Therefore any ICC profiles are tossed out. The color values of the resultant color managed images are close, but not exact. Unless the work is an art print where color has to be very exact, XDP's output is fine at the few percentages in the CMYK values it will be off. If I were doing art prints, I would place Xara's art and the color managed images into something else.

Mike

[gwpriester]

I think you are over-thinking this. I have one rule for color printing, Is it convincing?

Years ago when I was a very new art director working on the Datsun (now Nissan) national advertising account, I did my first color ad with a photo of two Datsun automobiles. We spent weeks working with the photo engraver preparing the color separations for the full page ads that were running in Life and Time magazines. Finally the color proofs we saw were as close to the 8 x 10 transparencies are they were ever going to get.

I have to wait about two months before the ad appeared. I looked at the ad in Time Magazine in horror. The white car was all pink. I showed the ad to my wife who looked at it, shrugged her shoulders, and said, what's the problem, it looks fine to me.

In other words, it was convincing.

Unless you are printing catalogs and ads in which customers are making a critical selection based on color accuracy, just make sure the printing is clean and you'll be OK.

[mwenz]

Gary, I don't know who you are directing your comments to, but I suspect it is me.

Some people actually like color accuracy. An application used for print really ought to be reasonably accurate. Having color management would be ideal, not an absolute necessity. One can get images close and works for 99% of all my print work. But it is far enough off from XDP in certain color ranges that I would not call it "accurate." But they are, to me, acceptable shifts.

As far as your ad, I would have rejected it. And the mags would have to have had reduced pricing in future ads. If they provide a proof I signed off on, their print should match their print. That is their responsibility. The shift you describe would not have been acceptable in anyone's book. I don't care how well the shift looked in print.