Welcome to TalkGraphics.com
Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 138
  1. #121
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Princeton Junction, NJ, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    interesting - I wonder if you USA guys ever stop to think about how you sound to those of us who live elsewhere?
    Absolutely, and no disrespect is intended. If anything, I think it would be disrespectful and disingenuous to treat my peers and colleagues in other countries as incapable of understanding the impact that mismanaged globalization has on an industry and the people who support it.

    Having been in software for 35 years, I've worked with, and continue to have colleagues in, places like Hong Kong, Tokyo, Ukraine, India, China and more. While it's great to suddenly find yourself in demand and in a position where a great wage in your locale appears "cheap" to consumers (big corporations) from countries like the US, human capital arbitrage has enormous repercussions. The lives of millions are impacted, for better or worse. Work flow and process, along with product quality, are enormously disrupted when executives make outsourcing decisions driven by their quarterly bonuses, which are typically based on short-term financial metrics which completely ignore larger impact 1, 2, 5 and 10 years out.

    None of this is an attack or condemnation of workers and professionals in any part of the world. If anyone should tank the brunt of the criticism, it would be:
    - the executives mentioned above, who look to cut the "labor" line in their cash flow statements without understanding or caring about the impact
    - consumers who patronize companies that outsource their work to places that lack the most basic protections and benefits for the workers
    - some of the greedy organizations in "elsewhere" that promote the maturity and quality of their products and processes disingenuously, such as the numerous software consulting groups that claim to be operating at CMMi level 5, when this is quite often far from the truth.

    Despite the negative tone of the the words above, there are, indeed, good honest people in all of the roles related to some globalization efforts. I don't think anyone has stated or implied otherwise in this discussion. There is no intent to insult people from any country or culture. My frustration relates to the irresponsible push to globalize relentlessly, absent the truly needed time / effort / investment to make it work without compromising quality of product and service and without sacrificing an entire workforce.

    I have colleagues and friends in many parts of the world, mostly due to my professional connections. The honest ones will be the first to admit the challenges involved in globalization, and the downside impact as well as the positive aspects.

    One more thought - as I noted above, a lot of the problems in globalization are due to short-term thinking without regard for long-term impact and side-effects. The cost of software development in India is a great example. For about 30 years, the difference in human capital cost between the US and, for example, Bangalore, has been a huge impetus for many companies to find ways to globalize software development. Executives cut short-term costs, received enormous bonuses, and because the bottom line appeared good on paper, many stocks soared. At the same time, millions of US software workers found their career skills down-valued in a global market. Numerous highly talented and experienced workers can no longer earn what they were making 20 years ago, or even find a job at all. The interesting catch, which would be worthy of being in one of Aesop's fables, is this: the enormous demand from places like the US for cheaper labor from places like India is actually creating scarcity; following the classic concepts of supply and demand, the cost of software professionals from India is rising steadily - and in some places already matches the most expensive comparable labor in the US. So - after a few years of gluttony and profit on the part of some uncaring executives, we start to wind up with:
    - IT labor costs that are coming back to what they were - or would have been had they remained local - in the US
    - a vastly compromised US IT labor industry
    - a dramatic loss of interest on the part of US students in the software industry
    - a shortage of domestic talent in this absolutely critical field

    In the end, this is analogous in some ways to the craze to convert apartment buildings to condos 15 or 20 years ago. The only people who benefitted, generally, were the brokers and investors. Long term effect: costs have skyrocketed, and housing is a larger percentage of income for many people than it would have been otherwise.

    Sorry if my diatribe went a bit off-topic. I'll stop now, hoping I've clarified some of my earlier comments. Again - no intent whatsoever to denigrate or insult any particular country, people or culture. But all involved are naive and foolish to ignore the incredible impact that irresponsible outsourcing may have.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    21,309

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    thanks for that Jon - thing about capitalism and free market forces is that one man's irresponsibility [eg from employee's point of view] can be another's advantage [eg shareholder's] - even if the advantage is short term; a lot of thinking is short term, human nature

    anyhow I agree too, we move on..
    Last edited by handrawn; 28 May 2013 at 03:48 PM. Reason: point of veiw
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  3. #123
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jacksonville Florida
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by AndFarr View Post
    I would also never do it. Never.
    It only becomes the norm if everyone fall in line and subscribes.
    With this kind of subscription you own nothing and pay endlessly.
    If you can't afford it otherwise, and there are no alternatives then you would have no choice I suppose.
    But there are choices, and good ones too !
    So does it make any sense to sign up for this kind of financial bloodletting?
    -AF
    I think this is why I will only use legacy versions of Adobe products, I don't like the constant intrusion by a subscription App and having to pay and pay and pay, did I mention pay for this intrusion? So I think the Companies Who don't go Status Quo are going to win when it's all said and done.
    Last edited by jim64; 30 May 2013 at 06:47 PM. Reason: corrections

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    387

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    @handrawn and haakoo -- I want to apologize for coming across as USA-centric. Look, it's confusing. Of course I want jobs that are here to remain here. I'm sure you feel the same way about jobs in your countries! But this offshoring is something I just have to learn to accept, and sometimes I don't do too well expressing how I feel.

    Honestly? Truly honestly? I wish that jobs would stay put in Canada, the US, and Mexico... and also in Europe, Russia, and Australia. Basically, no more offshoring art jobs to India, China, or -- sooner or later -- to the Middle East or Africa. I don't think this makes me a racist. More like a strong prejudice based on economics. I'd like to chop the underseas cables going to these low-wage countries, cut them off from nibbling away at the high-wage pie. And, back to the thread, I'd like to zap Adobe for making this Creative Cloud software that will accelerate the low-wage offshoring.

    Anyway, again, an apology. I truly didn't mean to offend anyone.
    Author -- 'Drawing for Money' and 'Self-Publishing Secrets', at Jon404.com

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    21,309

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    so, the high wage pie, is not for sharing?

    you are on dangerous ground Jon..
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  6. #126
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jacksonville Florida
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    Yup, Out Sourcing is the status quo. Try calling tech support for most companies on the weekend! Populated by Card readers.

  7. #127

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    Jon isn't on anything remotely close to dangerous ground. What he has voiced isn't protectionism, racist or any other words one wishes to employ. It is simply concerns for his countrymen. If anything it is closer to patriotism.

    In any case, I am of the same sentiment however worded. Fact is the USA and most other countries that have succeeded economically have done so by innovation and producing the fruits of those innovations. The rate of innovation is a dwindling thing since the 1960s or so. No country can sustain innovation and ship jobs away at the same time. It is impossible economically.

    Mike

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    21,309

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    then he should find a better way of expressing than:

    I'd like to chop the underseas cables going to these low-wage countries, cut them off from nibbling away at the high-wage pie
    because that is very clearly xenophobic

    patriotism is fine, but if you can't compete you fix what's wrong with your internal market, you don't blame those who are better placed

    @Jon - not falling out here, no need to apologise, we just don't agree...
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Bracknell, UK
    Posts
    8,659

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    The rate of innovation is a dwindling thing since the 1960s

    I really don't think so. Quite the opposite.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Jacksonville Florida
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Adobe commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    so, the high wage pie, is not for sharing?

    you are on dangerous ground Jon..
    You want your high wage pie Make it your self! Why sponge off other's successes ? My view is get off your duff and create your own high wage pie! Why act like a liberal and sponge off others?

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •