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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Yes, I respect that as already said, however this is not altering. Legally it is adding. Now I am not familiar with US system but here in Slovenia it can not be restricted, since it is of no use without our letters, it is like a car without wheels. And many font styles do unfortunately the same. They discriminate Slavic (and moreover Arabic ...) languages, which were centuries ago spread to more than a half of European continent. Now some guys from USA created computers without ever thinking about something else as Germanic or Romance alphabets and we have to suffer that also in 2012 almost on every step: UTF is not supported. This is really frustrating.
    So as much as I respect your work, I still can not feel else but frustrated. You can use all fonts, however I can use one third of them. In our era this is pure discrimination. The law which prohibit adding our functionality is therefore against our democratic principles and hence a pure discriminative manipulation.
    You might answer that the author has the right not to allow this set to be used for our characters but how would I feel then?
    Of what use would such a decision be? Oh wait he maybe wants us to buy a version with my characters, where you can use yours free? It is not in the sense of EU democratic standards.

    Sorry to be rude, pardon my English, but this way you can maybe better understand where my cynicism derives from

    Anyways I already contacted the author both through mail and Twitter, but his autoreply was convincing. He will for 99% not be able to answer until mid of sept. My intention was not to publish that, but to respect his authorship, solely to test it.
    Because there is a big possibility that this would not do. You seem to be sure that the webfont altered in this way would display correctly?
    Hope you are wright! Thanks again!
    IP

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, N.Y.
    Posts
    5,701

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Hi urednik—

    Sadly, very few if any members on TalkGraphics are well enough versed in copyright law to interpret your request to satisfy the letter of copyright laws.

    So what we are doing here is erring on the side of caution.

    I understand your frustration and do sympathize with you completely. It seems as though something is very close to being in your grasp, but this stupid plate glass window is stopping you.

    For what it's worth, TalkGraphics is hosted on a German server, I believe (MAGIX), and whatever legal issues they'd have would be rightfully theirs.

    Let us not continue to discuss what international laws might be in effect, because none of us are qualified to debate this. No one at TalkGraphics is trying to start a fight or deliberately make your work harder, urednik.

    You brought someone else's typeface to TalkGraphics and asked whether it could be modified, in theory and in practice.

    The answer is "yes". I'm sorry that I appeared to give something and then take it away, but it wasn't mine to begin with and I apologize.

    Clearly, there are people who are willing to help. We just need permission from the creator.

    Respectfully,

    Gary
    IP

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sunshine Coast BC, Canada. In a beautiful part of BC's temperate rainforest
    Posts
    9,863

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Neither Gare, or myself are discriminating against anyone, I understand your frustration and as the author appears to be German I'm sure he will too. And yes I got the same auto response

    I sent Yanone a link to this thread and invited him to join our discussion. We may have to wait a few weeks but that is better than potentially violating someone's copyright.

    My current Xara software: Designer Pro 365 12.6

    Good Morning Sunshine.ca | Good Morning Sunshine Online(a weekly humorous publication created with XDP and exported as a web document) | Angelize Online resource shop | My Video Tutorials | My DropBox |
    Autocorrect: It can be your worst enema.
    IP

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Not to be understood wrongly:
    I appreciate your help as well as Mr. Gerners Yanone art of work very much. However to much of talking about this system is not helpful as well. It is making us believe that the world is not ours but from each of us a piece. Do you always drive intentionally by law? You don't. No one does. We all are people. Therefore it is not respect always which saves our lives, but moreover our concentration and willingness to understand new situations. So mentioning the law more than one time is rather an excuse to me
    No offence please.
    IP

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Hautes Pyrénées, France
    Posts
    5,081

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    urednik, if you post your email adress here maybe somebody can show you at least how to achieve this yourself using some free or cheap software

    edit : however anal much of the above sounds (and i both sympathise with your argument and and indeed agree) i reluctantly agree that those rules apply and must be observed because
    1. this is a private forum belonging to xara/magiks
    2. we have to obey the rules or get banned which isn't much fun

    i hope yanone contacts you soon
    Last edited by Big Frank; 27 August 2012 at 12:37 AM.
    If someone tried to make me dig my own grave I would say No.
    They're going to kill me anyway and I'd love to die the way I lived:
    Avoiding Manual Labour.
    IP

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, NY
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Hi all.

    I really appreciate that everyone here is being extra cautious and respectful of font creators rights and copyright in general. It is the policy of TalkGraphics to require the permission of the copyright holder before altering or posting fonts, when the font is released without any specific instruction from the author about under what kind of copyright permission the font is being released under or if there are restrictions that prohibit modifying or creating derivative works.

    In this specific case YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf are available , as Angleize pointed out, from Google Web at http://www.google.com/webfonts/speci...one+Kaffeesatz where you can see the license information and download the font.

    If you download the font from there, it comes with the OFL licence in the zip file, which by the way is the same license we used to release RoundHead TG and The Celebrated Burgeon Ornaments TG. I've posted it below for you to see.

    From reading the license, it is clearly permissible to modify and add to the YanoneKaffeesatz font. It is also OK to use it anyway you want as long as the modified version is released and distributed under the same SIL Open Font License under a new name (so it is not confused with the original work) and the five listed conditions are met.

    So if Frank (or anyone else who wants to help out the OP) would like to post a modified version of the font (adding a glyph counts as modifying) using a new name (see condition 3) and clearly release it as a SIL OFL font that would be OK to post here.

    Since the widely used font was missing a useful standard character, it would be nice if all four fonts were "fixed" and we could release it as our first Font Aid fixed font as long as we are careful with the font name and how we acknowledge the original font creator.

    Cheers,
    Barbara

    ---------------------------

    Copyright (c) 2010, Jan Gerner (post@yanone.de)
    This Font Software is licensed under the SIL Open Font License, Version 1.1.
    This license is copied below, and is also available with a FAQ at:
    http://scripts.sil.org/OFL


    -----------------------------------------------------------
    SIL OPEN FONT LICENSE Version 1.1 - 26 February 2007
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    PREAMBLE
    The goals of the Open Font License (OFL) are to stimulate worldwide
    development of collaborative font projects, to support the font creation
    efforts of academic and linguistic communities, and to provide a free and
    open framework in which fonts may be shared and improved in partnership
    with others.

    The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and
    redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves. The
    fonts, including any derivative works, can be bundled, embedded,
    redistributed and/or sold with any software provided that any reserved
    names are not used by derivative works. The fonts and derivatives,
    however, cannot be released under any other type of license. The
    requirement for fonts to remain under this license does not apply
    to any document created using the fonts or their derivatives.

    DEFINITIONS
    "Font Software" refers to the set of files released by the Copyright
    Holder(s) under this license and clearly marked as such. This may
    include source files, build scripts and documentation.

    "Reserved Font Name" refers to any names specified as such after the
    copyright statement(s).

    "Original Version" refers to the collection of Font Software components as
    distributed by the Copyright Holder(s).

    "Modified Version" refers to any derivative made by adding to, deleting,
    or substituting -- in part or in whole -- any of the components of the
    Original Version, by changing formats or by porting the Font Software to a
    new environment.

    "Author" refers to any designer, engineer, programmer, technical
    writer or other person who contributed to the Font Software.

    PERMISSION & CONDITIONS
    Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining
    a copy of the Font Software, to use, study, copy, merge, embed, modify,
    redistribute, and sell modified and unmodified copies of the Font
    Software, subject to the following conditions:

    1) Neither the Font Software nor any of its individual components,
    in Original or Modified Versions, may be sold by itself.

    2) Original or Modified Versions of the Font Software may be bundled,
    redistributed and/or sold with any software, provided that each copy
    contains the above copyright notice and this license. These can be
    included either as stand-alone text files, human-readable headers or
    in the appropriate machine-readable metadata fields within text or
    binary files as long as those fields can be easily viewed by the user.

    3) No Modified Version of the Font Software may use the Reserved Font
    Name(s) unless explicit written permission is granted by the corresponding
    Copyright Holder. This restriction only applies to the primary font name as
    presented to the users.

    4) The name(s) of the Copyright Holder(s) or the Author(s) of the Font
    Software shall not be used to promote, endorse or advertise any
    Modified Version, except to acknowledge the contribution(s) of the
    Copyright Holder(s) and the Author(s) or with their explicit written
    permission.

    5) The Font Software, modified or unmodified, in part or in whole,
    must be distributed entirely under this license, and must not be
    distributed under any other license. The requirement for fonts to
    remain under this license does not apply to any document created
    using the Font Software.

    TERMINATION
    This license becomes null and void if any of the above conditions are
    not met.

    DISCLAIMER
    THE FONT SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
    EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTIES OF
    MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT
    OF COPYRIGHT, PATENT, TRADEMARK, OR OTHER RIGHT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
    COPYRIGHT HOLDER BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY,
    INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
    DAMAGES, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
    FROM, OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE FONT SOFTWARE OR FROM
    OTHER DEALINGS IN THE FONT SOFTWARE.
    Barbara Bouton
    TalkGraphics Forum Administrator

    The Xara Xone website developer. | TheBoutons.com
    IP

  7. #27

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Got a question, Barbara--and thanks for piping in.

    3) No Modified Version of the Font Software may use the Reserved Font
    Name(s) unless explicit written permission is granted by the corresponding
    Copyright Holder. This restriction only applies to the primary font name as
    presented to the users.

    Does this then mean if the font is modified, it cannot use the original name as the menu name without explicit permission from Yanone should it be redistributed?

    Mike "Not a lawyer" W
    IP

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, N.Y.
    Posts
    5,701

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    The answer is yes.

    It can, and probably should be called something other than, "Frank's version of YanoneKaffeesatz". The Step 3 you quoted, Mike, is clear on this point.

    Why not call it "TalkGraphics YT" so both the work Frank and others did on the font is reflected, while retaining a sense of the creator?

    Whatever is fine, certainly fine by me. We just can't release this as Frank's work, or mine, or anyone else's as "Yanone Kaffeesatz".

    Call it "Your Own Coffee Sense Bold".

    Whatev'

    Gary
    IP

  9. #29

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    Thanks, Gary.

    This was the first time I have ever read the license ... Mike
    IP

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Liverpool, N.Y.
    Posts
    5,701

    Default Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?

    I wish legal stuff was written by someone other than lawyers, Mike!

    So the Common Man could understand it and abide by it?

    How about if legal contracts were written by software engineers when they're not writing documentation?

    Okay, strike that thought...


    -g
    IP

 

 

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