Real Watercolor Brush

[gmotto]

Obrigado, Amigo.
I will post something when I get it done, thanks again.

Regards,
Greg.

[Jinny Brown]

Paulo,

Thanks for the additional information and explanation. I've posted your brush recipe in the Painter Forum at IDD and Cris Palomino has tried it. She had some questions about it and I suggested that we post samples there of what we're getting. Mine is posted, and I'll also post it here. It's not a painting, just something to show you how the brush is working for me (today, as yesterday it was different with no changes made by me except to reset Brush Tracking and move the Opacity and Grain sliders). Yesterday, I got a short full opacity stroke then the rest of the stroke was lowered opacity. Today, I could get a long stroke at full opacity and only when I lightened my (hand) pressure did it go to a lighter opacity. You'll see this in the sample below. I think you'll see that my brush stroke is quite different from yours and I wonder if you can tell me how to change what I'm doing with it to get something more like what you have. Yours is lovely, soft and natural looking.

(By the way, I'm enjoying this brush a lot, just want to use it the best way.)

Also, may I have your permission to post your explanation in the Painter Forum at IDD? I think it would help people there to understand how to use the brush.

Here's my sample:

http://www.pixelalley.com/painter-li...les-to-IDD.jpg

[This message was edited by Jinny Brown on June 09, 2001 at 16:01.]

[paulo]

Jinny, Cris and all


We seem to be before a real mystery here. I could never imagine the same brush "recipe" would produce so different results!

Let's begin, Jinny with your sample strokes. My Real Watercolor Brush (from now on, RWB) looks quite different from those! First and foremost, I almost never get those spacing artifacts (overlapping circles) with my RWB, and they are clearly visible in the sample you posted. Second, your strokes don't seem to be variable in size; the ones I get are evenly proportional to pressure (the strongest the pressure, the bigger the size). And third, with my RWB opacity decreases fast with the slightest decrease in pressure, and it never comes back before I lift the pen off the tablet. That's how it's supposed to work!

Well, let's write down some technicalities before we continue:
I'm using:

Painter 6.1
Windows 98
Wacom Artz II

As for my technique, here's how I use the RWB (default settings, please):

1.For filling large areas, I use strong, even pressure. I get with that large strokes with full color and hard edges.
2.If I start with firm pressure I get the same hard-edged strokes, but as soon as I decrease the hand pressure a little I get continuous decreasing opacity: the brush becomes a blending brush. I use it to soften hard edges (see sample).
3.I may use the RWB as a blending brush indefinitely, as long as I don't lift the pen off the tablet. If I increase the hand pressure while RWB is in the "blending mode," I get a larger blending brush, that's all.
4.When I lift the pen off the tablet I got a "newly replenished" watercolour brush. If I press it hard on the tablet, I go back to (1) as a result. If I use little initial hand pressure, I get a smaller size brush with little opacity: it becomes, almost immediately, a blending brush.

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/circle.jpg

But, what to say of the rest? How come, Jinny, your brush behaves today differently today than it did yesterday? How come it behaves differently in different machines? We may be talking gremlins here.

Maybe it'd be interesting if other people who are trying the brush would post samples of their own experiments. We could learn a lot with it each other!

Keep painting!


Paulo

[This message was edited by paulo on June 09, 2001 at 19:45.]

[gmotto]

Hi Folks,
Paulo, I think this brush is great. I have been playing with it for a while and I think it is a Keeper. I am attaching a test image as per your request.

Regards,
Greg.

[Jinny Brown]

Greg,

Thanks for participating! We all seem to be getting different results but the RWB basics are pretty much the same. I'm beginning to think my difficulties have more to do with my pen settings changing on their own (in the Wacom Controls panel). Also, my blending opacity and brush size are very erratic and not controllable. While I have the brush in blending mode and it's going along nicely, all of a sudden it will revert to either or both of the following: full opacity and/or a larger brush size. This is without my having changed physical pressure at all. I've tested over and over to make sure it's not me and, though practice would probably improve my control, it's obvious that something is amiss with the pen pressure (or possibly it's that I'm still using Painter 6.0.3 and Paulo's using 6.1 ??).

What system are you on, Painter version, etc.?

Paulo,

Thanks for the nice samples. I tried reproducing them and came close but still have problems with pen pressure that result in not being able to keep lighter opacity for blending and sometimes not being able to continue the brush stroke (the latter is a new development in the past few minutes).

I still love the brush, I just don't love the way my pen is acting.

Win98 SE
Wacom ArtZII, driver 4.52
Painter 6.0.3

Greg,

If you're interested in seeing some more samples, rather good ones, done by Cris Palomino, and another one posted by me today, they're available in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:

http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/default.asp

The trip would be worthwhile for even more than this topic and IDD is a great community of really decent people.. many of whom are very talented and all of whom are generous with their knowledge.

Happy Brushing! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_______________________

[This message was edited by Jinny Brown on June 10, 2001 at 11:18.]

[gmotto]

Hi Jinny,
I am using Painter 6.0.3 on a Win 98 PC. I use an Intuos tablet. I don't seem to be having the problems you are having. I might be facing East or holding my chin differently than you are. So far I am getting a hell of a kick out of playing with it.
I hope you can get it sorted out soon.
Regards,
Greg

[paulo]

Jinny, Cris and All

A. SIZE MATTERS
---------------------
We're finally close to reach common ground here. Our first problem is probably size related. You all must have noticed from previous Painter experiments that increasing the Brush size may result in a less-than-smooth stroke: you get those overlapping circles, the dreadful spacing artifacts. A common solution is decreasing the Spacing percentage in the Brush Pallete.

All my samples were made using low resolutions and a brush size within a 10 to 25 pixels range. I had never tried a bigger brush size until now.

Let's experiment a little:

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/size.jpg

Brush settings for 1-3:
Brush Size: 10.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(1) I am able to maintain a steady color flow until I release a little hand pressure.
(2) When I release hand pressure in mid-stroke the color fades and (3) I may use the brush as a blender, provided I don't lift the pen from the tablet.
Comments on 1-3:
This is the Real Water Brush as I've been using it. Soft, real-like. For comments on color fading, see below.

Brush settings for 4-5:
Brush Size: 50.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(4) I try a steady pressure stroke as in (1). Now I finally get a result similar to what Jinny and Cris seem to be getting. The overlapping circles are here, and they are as visible as in Jinny's post. The increase in size seem to ask for a decrease in the spacing setting. Note that when I release hand pressure at the end of the stroke the color fades. If I keep the pen pressed (5) I may keep using the brush as a blender, even with the presence of those dreadful spacing artifacts.
Comments on 4-5:
This is probably the kind of result that Jinny, Cris and others are experimenting. Notice you may use the RWB as a blender (after opacity becomes 0) even with such an uneven stroke result. For more on technique, see below. For a possible solution to this issue, see 6-8.

Brush settings for 6-8:
Brush Size: 50.0
Spacing: 14%
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(6) I try a firm, steady stroke as in (1). With the lesser spacing value, the stroke is soft again: the spacing artifacts are gone. The color remains flowing until I release hand pressure in the end.
(7) When I release some hand pressure in mid-stroke it behaves as in (2) and (3). With the saturation gone, it enters the "blender"mode, and I use the invisible brush to soften hard edges and
(8) to mix colors.
Comments on 6-8:
This is how I suppose one should use the RWB in higher resolutions. Tell me if it is working for anyone else.


B. BRUSH DAB
---------------------
Jinny, I guess that the right brush dab was what your brush (and your template [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]) was lacking. Yes, my RWB uses the Brush Dab Center Bottom Icon. Now that you changed it, your brush looks exactly like mine. Congratulations!
For more on results, see below.


C. A QUESTION OF TECHNIQUE: Drawing Clouds
---------------------
The remaining part of the problem is probably related to differences in our painting techniques. In the samples Jinny and Cris posted in the forums, none of the two seem to be using the brushes as I'm using them in the samples I'm posting (except, maybe, to Jinny last post in IDD). In fact, the "look and feel" of Cris' brush strokes isn't much different than my own. Her use of the strokes is quite different, though. Her strokes are short, precise, oil-like. Mine are long, convoluted and overlapping.

Let me show what I mean with another example:
DRAWING CLOUDS

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/clouds.jpg

Brush settings for Drawing Clouds Example:
Brush Size: 20
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.

(1) The orange line traces my original RWB stroke. As you see, it is one long, convoluted, overlapping stroke. Here I used steady pressure until the end. The result isn't what I want, though. I don't want those hard edges for my clouds. Let me try again.
(2) Once again, one long, overlapping stroke only. With one difference: I release some hand pressure at some point (x) so that opacity decreases to almost 0, and I begin to use the brush as a blender. Note that I don't lift the pen off the tablet after the color is gone: we're talking the same long stroke here. THE WATERCOLOR-LIKE APPEARANCE OF MY POSTS ISN'T THE RESULT OF PAINT DISPERSION. IT'S THE RESULT OF RETOUCHING HARD EDGES WITH THE BRUSH AFTER IT LOSES OPACITY. I keep using the RWB in this "blender mode"until I get what I want:
(3) soft looking clouds. Then I may begin again, with a new color or pressure (4), depending on the results I want.

Some final suggestions:
1. Please check in the Size tab of the Brush Pallete if your RWB Brush Dab is set to Center Bottom Icon. It's where it's supposed to be.
2. Use long, convoluted, overlaping strokes to with steady firm hand pressure cover large areas with color.
3. Release some hand pressure in mid-stroke, without releasing the pen off the tablet, to use the brush in its blender mode. Note that it's the use of the RWB in this "blender mode" that will make your watercolour look real. Suppose you're painting with real watercolor: the paint in your brush is gone quickly after you touch the paper, but you may keep using your "dry" brush as a color blender, and to soften hard edges. When you lift the RWB off the tablet, you're actually replenishing it with paint. Before using it as a blender again, you must ged rid of the paint in the brush. Do it with a long, natural stroke... and don't lift the pen off the tablet if you want to soften some hard edges.

Cris, you say in your post, "the color is gone quickly and does not return until I start another stroke." Well, that's how it's supposed to work! Keep the pen on the tablet and use the RWB to soften some hard edges. Remember: long, natural, overlapping strokes. Think water here. Think Japanese painting gestures.

And keep painting. Hope some of this actually
helps!

Greg, glad you're enjoying it!

[This message was edited by paulo on June 10, 2001 at 12:48.]

[paulo]

To further illustrate my watercolor technique as described above:

Each of the six elements in this simple landscape were painted with one long stroke each.

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/onestroke.jpg

If you pay attention, the same principle (one stroke for each block of color) was used in this other one:

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/sictransit.jpg

Peace,

P

[gmotto]

Paulo,
This is a sample of my use of your brush. I t is taking some getting used to after not working in Water Colors for a while.
Regards,
Greg

[paulo]

Jinny,

In your last post you ask what was the original brush I messed up with until I got RWB. Frankly I don't remember! I only remember it wasn't originally a watercolor brush.

Another idea has just crossed my mind. I'm posting the Real Water Brush, the Original, as an attachment to this post (realwater.brs). Let's see if it works in your PC!

It's a pleasure to be of any help!

P