Real Watercolor Brush

[paulo]

Fellow painters,

If you've ever worked with real watercolor, you know that Painter's default brushes lack in feel and result. Well, I've been toying around with Painter's Watercolor Brushes and I think I've got real, real close to the real thing.

Attachments don't seem to be attaching, so take a look at the result here:
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/sictransit.jpg

E-mail if you want this one. Sorry, PC only.

Best strokes,

Paulo

[This message was edited by paulo on June 08, 2001 at 13:11.]

[Jinny Brown]

Hi there!

It's great to see you here, Martye. Thanks too for the reminder that I probably need to upgrade my Wacom driver. This seems to be upgrade week for me. First Netscape, then I finally gave in and upgraded to Painter 6.1 (Painter was misbehaving terribly and I got fed up!), and now the Wacom driver.

I hate all this upgrading stuff. I'd rather be playing. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Hope you check out the IDD Painter Forum too.. as I said in an earlier message, there's more info there on Paulo's Real Watercolor Brush that's worth seeing. (Also, IDD has some other great forums and it's a wonderful community.)

I'd hate to miss out on all the great stuff found in the many Painter related communities... so I spend way too many hours reading all of them each day. The latest I've found is at Sijun.com. Though there's not a specific Painter forum, a good many threads under Digital Art Discussions are related to Painter.

Hope you'll be sharing some of your tips and techniques here. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________

[ghi stecyk]

jinny? you've been hanging around the Sijun forums?...funny [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]. i think the average age there is like..12 [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] . but there are some really talented people posting who make good use of painter in their work.

s.

[Jinny Brown]

Paulo and Greg,

Greg, I must be facing East now.. too. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Paulo,

I downloaded your brush and it works beautifully on my PC. I double checked all of the settings against what you posted in the recipe and there was only one tiny difference. In the recipe Size is 10.3. In your Real Water brush, Size was set at 10.9. Surely that couldn't make any difference.

Now I've tested your brush and my newly built brush side by side and they seem to be working exactly alike. I still get a little of the sudden return to full opacity while in blending mode but if I move the pen more slowly and carefully it doesn't happen so often and I'm learning how to pick up lighter areas and blend over those spots to make them disappear.

I'm getting some really beautiful blends now. This may be the best thing that's happened to Painter's Water Color brushes ever! I think Corel should give you a nice fat check for inventing this one and then incorporate it as one of the Painter 7 defaults!

It's working for me now! Yippee! []

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________

[paulo]

Ok,

My fault. The correct value is 122.1

I live in Brazil, and we few countries of Portuguese language use commas instead of dots to separate decimals. I sometimes forget that when writing in English.

Keep painting, and please send me (or post) what you're doing with the new brush! I'm curious!

P

[gmotto]

Hi Jinny,
I am using Painter 6.0.3 on a Win 98 PC. I use an Intuos tablet. I don't seem to be having the problems you are having. I might be facing East or holding my chin differently than you are. So far I am getting a hell of a kick out of playing with it.
I hope you can get it sorted out soon.
Regards,
Greg

[paulo]

Jinny, Cris and All

A. SIZE MATTERS
---------------------
We're finally close to reach common ground here. Our first problem is probably size related. You all must have noticed from previous Painter experiments that increasing the Brush size may result in a less-than-smooth stroke: you get those overlapping circles, the dreadful spacing artifacts. A common solution is decreasing the Spacing percentage in the Brush Pallete.

All my samples were made using low resolutions and a brush size within a 10 to 25 pixels range. I had never tried a bigger brush size until now.

Let's experiment a little:

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/size.jpg

Brush settings for 1-3:
Brush Size: 10.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(1) I am able to maintain a steady color flow until I release a little hand pressure.
(2) When I release hand pressure in mid-stroke the color fades and (3) I may use the brush as a blender, provided I don't lift the pen from the tablet.
Comments on 1-3:
This is the Real Water Brush as I've been using it. Soft, real-like. For comments on color fading, see below.

Brush settings for 4-5:
Brush Size: 50.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(4) I try a steady pressure stroke as in (1). Now I finally get a result similar to what Jinny and Cris seem to be getting. The overlapping circles are here, and they are as visible as in Jinny's post. The increase in size seem to ask for a decrease in the spacing setting. Note that when I release hand pressure at the end of the stroke the color fades. If I keep the pen pressed (5) I may keep using the brush as a blender, even with the presence of those dreadful spacing artifacts.
Comments on 4-5:
This is probably the kind of result that Jinny, Cris and others are experimenting. Notice you may use the RWB as a blender (after opacity becomes 0) even with such an uneven stroke result. For more on technique, see below. For a possible solution to this issue, see 6-8.

Brush settings for 6-8:
Brush Size: 50.0
Spacing: 14%
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(6) I try a firm, steady stroke as in (1). With the lesser spacing value, the stroke is soft again: the spacing artifacts are gone. The color remains flowing until I release hand pressure in the end.
(7) When I release some hand pressure in mid-stroke it behaves as in (2) and (3). With the saturation gone, it enters the "blender"mode, and I use the invisible brush to soften hard edges and
(8) to mix colors.
Comments on 6-8:
This is how I suppose one should use the RWB in higher resolutions. Tell me if it is working for anyone else.


B. BRUSH DAB
---------------------
Jinny, I guess that the right brush dab was what your brush (and your template [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]) was lacking. Yes, my RWB uses the Brush Dab Center Bottom Icon. Now that you changed it, your brush looks exactly like mine. Congratulations!
For more on results, see below.


C. A QUESTION OF TECHNIQUE: Drawing Clouds
---------------------
The remaining part of the problem is probably related to differences in our painting techniques. In the samples Jinny and Cris posted in the forums, none of the two seem to be using the brushes as I'm using them in the samples I'm posting (except, maybe, to Jinny last post in IDD). In fact, the "look and feel" of Cris' brush strokes isn't much different than my own. Her use of the strokes is quite different, though. Her strokes are short, precise, oil-like. Mine are long, convoluted and overlapping.

Let me show what I mean with another example:
DRAWING CLOUDS

http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/clouds.jpg

Brush settings for Drawing Clouds Example:
Brush Size: 20
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.

(1) The orange line traces my original RWB stroke. As you see, it is one long, convoluted, overlapping stroke. Here I used steady pressure until the end. The result isn't what I want, though. I don't want those hard edges for my clouds. Let me try again.
(2) Once again, one long, overlapping stroke only. With one difference: I release some hand pressure at some point (x) so that opacity decreases to almost 0, and I begin to use the brush as a blender. Note that I don't lift the pen off the tablet after the color is gone: we're talking the same long stroke here. THE WATERCOLOR-LIKE APPEARANCE OF MY POSTS ISN'T THE RESULT OF PAINT DISPERSION. IT'S THE RESULT OF RETOUCHING HARD EDGES WITH THE BRUSH AFTER IT LOSES OPACITY. I keep using the RWB in this "blender mode"until I get what I want:
(3) soft looking clouds. Then I may begin again, with a new color or pressure (4), depending on the results I want.

Some final suggestions:
1. Please check in the Size tab of the Brush Pallete if your RWB Brush Dab is set to Center Bottom Icon. It's where it's supposed to be.
2. Use long, convoluted, overlaping strokes to with steady firm hand pressure cover large areas with color.
3. Release some hand pressure in mid-stroke, without releasing the pen off the tablet, to use the brush in its blender mode. Note that it's the use of the RWB in this "blender mode" that will make your watercolour look real. Suppose you're painting with real watercolor: the paint in your brush is gone quickly after you touch the paper, but you may keep using your "dry" brush as a color blender, and to soften hard edges. When you lift the RWB off the tablet, you're actually replenishing it with paint. Before using it as a blender again, you must ged rid of the paint in the brush. Do it with a long, natural stroke... and don't lift the pen off the tablet if you want to soften some hard edges.

Cris, you say in your post, "the color is gone quickly and does not return until I start another stroke." Well, that's how it's supposed to work! Keep the pen on the tablet and use the RWB to soften some hard edges. Remember: long, natural, overlapping strokes. Think water here. Think Japanese painting gestures.

And keep painting. Hope some of this actually
helps!

Greg, glad you're enjoying it!

[This message was edited by paulo on June 10, 2001 at 12:48.]

[Jinny Brown]

paolo,

Very nice! I'll write to you privately to ask for your brush recipe.

Thanks for offering it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________

[Jinny Brown]

Stecyk,

I have noticed some rather juvenile (delinquent) posts there, but also some pretty decent ones from people who try to be helpful and squash the worst of the trouble makers.

Anyway, I'm so ancient, what's a decade or two deeper into youth? (Besides, some 12 year olds are pretty neat. I have 5 grandchildren and they're all neat.. of course.)

Really, I see plenty of "adults" who behave with just as much immaturity in a few of the Painter related groups. If people are interested in learning and sharing what they know, that's all that really matters.

I'm probably old enough (and then some) to be your mom. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________

[ghi stecyk]

the powder magazine.

well you people have finally got me thinking about watercolour. 98% of painter's brushes i never touch! hopefully now it will be more like 97.5%.

this thread has been extensive and should be seen by more people since it illustrates painter's very convincing watercolour effects amazingly. great work jinny, paulo and greg.

in some ways every brush effect should be shown like this, up close and personal, so people can really grasp the power of painter's technology. especially for those who are really interested in using software for serious art creation. the airbrush is spectacular. far superior to photoshop's. and no other program exploits the wacom drivers as thoroughly as painter does. geez Corel should have this kind of stuff you've presented here plastered all over their site!?

again, good work. you guys 'ave blown me away.

hey paulo. wait 'til you get your hands on P7. you'll be in heaven...

hmmm. maybe i should do a tutorial on 'How to Paint a Sexy Girl With Painter 6'. yeah, like Fritz Willis in a Walter Foster book!


[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

stecyk66

[This message was edited by stecyk66 on June 10, 2001 at 23:09.]