remove web stuff from xara designer

**amoore** · 19 August 2011, 03:36 PM

Luke, I really understand what you say about developer time and efficiency of sharing fixes and new features. Sadly, although I doubt that you intended it that way, as I read your response I got the feeling that XDP is being positioned as a useful web authoring app that has some excellent graphics tools rather than as an excellent graphics app that has some useful web authoring tools. Those of us who don't use the web tools can tend to feel left out, especially if Xara has been our go-to, right hand, best friend graphics app for years.

I don't use the web features because I'm only responsible for two sites. The main one is now a couple of hundred pages (and growing). For a number of reasons in addition to its size, there's no possibility that I could maintain that site in XDP. All the graphics work, including photo manipulation, is done in XDP. I wouldn't have it any other way.

When it comes to "enhancements" in XDP, it can be hard not to ascribe those that get in the way to the perceived focus on web authoring. For example, favoring page level over layer level in the P&L Gallery. (Bless you for giving us the ability to turn off the page thumbails!) And the multi-layer clipboard that arrived in v5. (Bless Bill for giving us a way to turn that off.)

OTOH, when we do get new vector capabilities (such as Magic Snap, which is great, and the new Paste capabilities, which don't look exciting but can be very useful), they look like small potatoes beside the web focus. And they're not promoted as "vector" or "drawing" enhancements. On your website, they're promoted as "Design and Useability Enhancements".

BTW, Mike, sending the customer base an email still won't provide a full picture of who's using Xara and the direction they want it to take. Only a fraction of the users will respond, and they may not accurately represent the whole.

Allison

**ad1066** · 19 August 2011, 03:43 PM

I'm in the same boat as Allison. I use XDP for illustration and desktop publishing. I haven't touched the web design features at all, mainly because when I do web design, I get down into the guts of the thing, and design from the ground up with Notepad++ (I'm fairly OCC about the neatness of my HTML and CSS code), and use Paint Shop Pro to create any bitmap images that will be used.

The innovations for drawing and illustration that have been introduced in XX4, XX5, and XDP6 are amazing. I personally would like to see the product continue to develop along those lines.

-- Ben

**ad1066** · 19 August 2011, 06:14 PM

[But apparently not OCD enough about checking my spelling.]

-- Ben

**Soquili** · 19 August 2011, 06:36 PM

My frustration with the Web features is they have been responsible for multiple changes to how tools function. Instead of a double click toggling the sizing and rotation handles it now switches tools, very frustrating when you have to reselect the tool you want and then slowly click to get the handles you want. There are many other changes to features solely to support the web features, too numerous to list here.

The changes to keyboard shortcuts does not bother me as I gave up on using them when the spacebar toggle was changed many versions ago.

If there were at least some vector improvements or new vector tools it would not seem that vector users were being ignored and appearantly wanted to remain silent and go away.

**ad1066** · 19 August 2011, 08:34 PM

I was initially very annoyed at the changing of the default function of the spacebar. At the time, I was using the Selection and Shape tools almost exclusively, so switching between the two was very convenient. However, in time I trained myself to use the Fkeys to get to the tools I wanted, and now it's second nature. So much so that I have at times found myself hitting F2 in Paint Shop Pro or Visio to try and get to the Selection tool.

-- Ben

**amoore** · 19 August 2011, 09:14 PM

The space bar toggle is too useful to give up. That shortcut key is one of the first things I change in a new install. I've always used the Fkeys to access tools. It's second nature.

OTW, I agree with Bill that various changes made in tool behavior have not improved my workflow. Rather, they're speed bumps I have to work around. The doubleclick change is one of them.

**ShapeShifter** · 19 August 2011, 09:23 PM

Would not these UI changes have happened anyway? Even without web stuff? I mean, is the web stuff entirely responsible for the UI changes made since v3. Can we really ask for new features to a drawing application and then complain about the changes the features might bring along with them?

**amoore** · 19 August 2011, 10:55 PM

I have little way to know whether any given modification was made to support the web functions over the drawing functions. As I said, it can be hard not to think so at times when a change adversely affects your workflow. AIR, the spacebar change was not web-related. Rather, it was an attempt to look more like the big boys at the expense of an elegant and innovative feature.

**Soquili** · 19 August 2011, 11:05 PM

Some of the UI changes would have occurred without the web features. The Dark UI for example would have been implemented without web features simply because younger users think it is "New" and "Improved".

Keyboard shortcut changes began long before web features, as I alluded to in my previous post.

However there are changes made to support the web features because they are required for those features to exist. This is where I would like the splitting of the two concepts. Don't force me to change my drawing workflow developed over 10+ years just to give someone web features.

I have no delusion that splitting web and vector drawing will have any advantages for one or the other. It would create more work for the developers and less time to work on either product.