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  1. #41
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    there's a whole separate cauldron of marine wildlife: xara brushes - you would first need to make those work

    then if you could draw with them the way you can in expression or illustrator or inkscape even, we might be getting somewhere
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  2. #42
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Absolutely. a number of threads have been about colouring cartoons and illustrations and the video link jumped at me as a way of allowing very fast colouring without having to tweak nodes or do anything fiddly. I remember there was a question about a fill tool and in some ways an eraser can help with fills too (rough fill, trim unwanted bits).
    Last edited by pauland; 04 August 2011 at 11:33 PM.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Get Designer Pro 7.

    It already has an Eraser.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Featured Artist on Xara Xone . May 2011
    . A Shield . My First Tutorial
    . Bottle Cap . My Second Tutorial on Xara Xone

  4. #44
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rik View Post
    Get Designer Pro 7.

    It already has an Eraser.
    "Yes, Jim, but it's not an eraser as Vectors know it"..

    (Rik, in case you didn't realise, it's a play on the old star trek phrase: "Jim, it's life, but not as we know it". The DP7 eraser isn't the vector eraser that we've been discussing in the thread).
    Last edited by pauland; 05 August 2011 at 12:56 AM.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    (I have had to log-in 5 time reading this thread)

    Let me see if I have some things Right:

    1) If you have a Big or Fat (if you will) Vector Line
    and a Little (or Skinny) Vector Line

    And you Erase 1/2 their Lengths, you Still have 2 Vector Lines, Shorter: 1 big width, 1 little width, Right?
    Or if cut in 1/2 (or cut to any length) then you have 4: 2 big width, 2 little width, Right?

    2) If you have 1 Big/Fat/Thick Vector Line

    And you Erase 1/2 of its Width... You have 1 littler Vector Line, with a smaller width, Right?

    3) in Bit-map... a Line could vary in Width...
    And an Eraser would have to be something of a Hybrid to take that into account...

    An 'Interesting' Challenge for those who would be doing the Eraser Programming to Cover Both Vector &

    Bit-Map at once!
    (many things to account for to have an Eraser that would do both Vector & Bit-map at the same time)

    But, I am betting they can do it, as Good as they are, if they want too or there is enough demand.
    Tom - Hwy101

  6. #46
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post
    The video is not of a vector application. It's intended to show the applicability of the eraser tool in an artistic workflow.
    Exactly. It shows the applicability of the typical bitmap eraser. And the bitmap eraser does not work the way you suggest for the vector. To have a similar workflow we need more sophisticated implementation of the vector eraser than you suggest. And the one you actually suggest will not help you with organic workflow at all.

    On the other hand, to be honest, I'm not sure that even bitmap eraser is necessary for the illustrated workflow. You can do the same only using brushes with proper color selections. No?
    John.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwy101 View Post
    But, I am betting they can do it, as Good as they are, if they want too or there is enough demand.
    You are right.
    John.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwy101 View Post
    (I have had to log-in 5 time reading this thread)

    Let me see if I have some things Right:

    1) If you have a Big or Fat (if you will) Vector Line
    and a Little (or Skinny) Vector Line

    And you Erase 1/2 their Lengths, you Still have 2 Vector Lines, Shorter: 1 big width, 1 little width, Right?
    Or if cut in 1/2 (or cut to any length) then you have 4: 2 big width, 2 little width, Right?
    Absolutely right. See the attached image.

    2) If you have 1 Big/Fat/Thick Vector Line

    And you Erase 1/2 of its Width... You have 1 littler Vector Line, with a smaller width, Right?
    Wrong. You have lines or shapes. If you have a line, you can cut it, but not nibble the width. If you want to nibble a line width, make it a shape first.

    In my earlier posts there is a diagram showing lines that have had an eraser go through them. When the eraser cuts through the line, the line is lost where the eraser has passed and thesevered ends have their end caps replaced, so the round end caps are now seen where the line is severed. The eraser cant rub out the width of a line.

    3) in Bit-map... a Line could vary in Width...
    And an Eraser would have to be something of a Hybrid to take that into account...
    Yes, but plenty of other people already do it. Erasers can also scythe through shapes, and bitmaps so. It's all perfectly possible.


    An 'Interesting' Challenge for those who would be doing the Eraser Programming to Cover Both Vector &

    Bit-Map at once!
    (many things to account for to have an Eraser that would do both Vector & Bit-map at the same time)

    But, I am betting they can do it, as Good as they are, if they want too or there is enough demand.
    Yes, indeed. I posted the video so people could see how good it can be to have an eraser. Before the video I really didn't see the point.

    I have run an eraser over a bitmap for you - it's essentially a shape.Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #49
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    Exactly. It shows the applicability of the typical bitmap eraser. And the bitmap eraser does not work the way you suggest for the vector. To have a similar workflow we need more sophisticated implementation of the vector eraser than you suggest.
    I can replicate the effects of the bitmap eraser shown in the video using the flash IDE using only vectors. The only differrence between a vector editor eraser and a bitmap editor eraser is that bitmap editors don't have the concept of lines as seperate editable entities. Once they are drawn they are just pixel shapes like everything else. A vector eraser will respect that a line is a joined series of points with a certain thickness and end caps.

    There is no trick question about this these vectore erasers are in existence and work just as you saw in that video. The whole point about the video is that the artist has a very fast, organic workflow that Xara doesn't have at present.[/quote]

    And the one you actually suggest will not help you with organic workflow at all.
    We must be watching differrent videos. I'll let others judge.

    On the other hand, to be honest, I'm not sure that even bitmap eraser is necessary for the illustrated workflow. You can do the same only using brushes with proper color selections. No?
    Yes, a brush tool, coupled with an eraser does work. It's the equivalent of the bitmap workflow - erasing brush generated shapes rather than bitmaps. I haven't ever suggested the need for using bitmaps for that workflow.

    In flash, the brush tool is drawn across the drawing space and it dynamically creates a shape that encapsulates the area that the brush is moved over. When the eraser tool is dragged, it creates a shape that again encompasses the area over which the eraser has moved. The eraser shape remains visible as the eraser is dragged. When the mouse is released, the shape created by the eraser is subtracted from the shapes and lines that are under it.

    A brush tool, plus colour and transparency selections are the equivalent of the artists paintbrush or crayon.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: The controversial eraser tool

    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post
    I can replicate the effects of the bitmap eraser shown in the video using the flash IDE using only vectors.
    I suppose you replicate it on the shapes, right? The point is, that the workflow represented on that video produces drawing consisting entirely of lines. There would be not a single shape created would he draw this way in vector editor (except if you have all lines automatically converted to shapes that is). And the eraser is clearly affecting resulting strokes as shapes, not as lines. This is most obvious closer to the end of the video. The background is represented as just a few very wide lines, which cover large area. Then the shape of the houses is subtracted from this area with the eraser. But the area is not a shape. So it wouldn't be erased this way if it was a vector eraser as you describe it.
    John.

 

 

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