Lots of WD templates!!!

[MediaGuy]

Very nice example Beretgascon.

[slavelle]

Which brings me to a question:

How close to another deisgn (like one on one of these template sites) can you get without violating some copyright or something?

I mean - how close is the spiral notebook to the template it was copied from? If someone here were to then use that template on a commercial website, would the original template designer have any rights?

The same argument has been had a thousand times about how much of a song can be "sampled" without having to give the original artist credit AND royalties.

Just asking, as I often use other templates or websites as inspiration - where is the line?

[Big Frank]

You bring up a good point and one which I have completely overlooked. That design is very close to the original because I did it as an exercise in template design, not as a template for my own or anybody else's use. If someone were to use that design for a personal or commercial purpose they would get in trouble. It's irrelevant that my design was completely created from scratch using Xara. It is a virtual copy of the original and, as such, it cannot be copied other than under "fair use" which, in this case, was the case (to make a design point). Thank you very much, slavelle, for bringing this to my attention.

Please can I ask a moderator to remove the XAR file from my post above (not the image) as it clearly encourages copyright infringement. If you have downloaded the template I'm afraid you will have to delete it as you have no right to use it and I have no right to offer it for download.

The original, non Xara, template can de found here:
http://www.4templates.com/view/websi...tes/0/AX0539BR

[slavelle]

Of course, we all use inspiration from everything around us, including other websites as a basis of creation, at least most of the time. In fact, I typically ask my client to give the links to 5 sites they like and 5 they dislike so I can get an idea of what types of designs appeal to them and try to incorporate at least some of that when feasable.

But that's different from an outright copy - which I also do for practice or to get a technique down that I want to do a derivitive of for a site I'm working on. If you see a certain type of button somewhere, I'm sure a button similar to it is fair, even in the same colors, even with a similarly laid out page - but somewhere it stops being inspiration and starts being a copy.

Glad you got it for what I intended, beretgascon.

[bcire68]

I think both of your arguments are valid and I certainly wouldn't want someone stealing my work.

However wouldn't it be fairly hard to prove that you copied someone's website template for sale, when you could have made a modified version of a similar site (especially if others have purchased it and made their own modifications)? I mean, how can you prove that I copied you and not taken inspiration from someone else?

Even Frank's copy isn't a direct copy. The backgrounds are different and so are some of the elements on the page.

Just a thought.

Eric

[Big Frank]

I think both of your arguments are valid and I certainly wouldn't want someone stealing my work.

Unfortunately neither of us is a lawyer so all they are is opinions. However, I have banged the copyright drum myself on these forums often enough to know better.

I mean, how can you prove that I copied you and not taken inspiration from someone else?

In many cases you can't, so if you cannot afford a lawyer, they have you over a barrel. That's the inequality of copyright infringement cases. To take a case to court, knowing you are right, will still cost you thousands. There's no legal aid in copyright cases in most industrialised nations.

Even Frank's copy isn't a direct copy. The backgrounds are different and so are some of the elements on the page.

It's the opinion of the panel, the judge or the jury (depending on which country your case is heard in) that matters. If they feel the copy is too flagrant, they'll penalise you. I personally would say it is flagrant.

Copyright law can be a minefield and what most commonly happens is that the party with the most money (i.e. the big fat lawyers, hello Corbis and Getty) win. What is also pertinent is the country into whose jurisdiction the alleged copyright infringement falls. And finally, depending upon the circumstances, the plaintiff may need to prove intent.

It is not an automatic defence in most western countries to say that you were not aware you were publishing an image that, allegedly, did not belong to you. However, this case is different. I knowingly took a website template design from 4templates.com and created an almost exact copy (never mind the tools used). The similarity between the two designs is striking and obvious enough. That in itself though is not copyright infringement - there is a defence of "fair use" which anybody can use to prove that the copy they made was for journalistic, critical, educational etc. purposes.

The copyright infringement occurs the moment I posted the XAR file and offered the template for anybody to download. The fact that I didn't ask for any money for the template is almost irrelevant. Clearly copyright law differs from country to country, so I'm generalising, but I wouldn't want to be the one to test out anybody's offered defence in this case.

I'm fairly convinced there would be a prima facie case to answer here. However, once the error of my ways was pointed out to me, every reasonable step was taken by me to remove the offending material, and that is a partial defence. I cannot remove or edit my own posts after 120mins, so I asked the moderators to do so for me.

Since I at no time asked for any recompense for the template I cannot be accused of profiteering from the 4templates design. I could, however, be held liable for loss of profits if 4templates (or the author of the original work) can prove that my publication of their copyrighted work on this website for the 12 or so hours it was up there resulted in a loss of earnings. They would have to prove this with supporting accounting evidence.

Maybe I'll get an email from them asking me for what they feel my actions have cost them...

... say, $29.95?

It's a cruel and unfeeling world we live in

[Add.O.B.]

...PARANOID...

[Big Frank]

Wait until you get a letter from Corbis...

Until then, keep working on them design skills

[Add.O.B.]

So, this suggestion of yours: "you can do better than that by creating your own website, using as your colour and layout inspiration a site like 4Templates" is not that great after all? At least your demonstration of it is now proclaimed by yourself as a copyright infringement?
Fine. So let's think about it. I have a choice:
a. pay $30 and have my site ready without any hassle or risks.
b. waste time browsing for design ideas, to copy them and take all the copyright risks.
c. learn to make great designs from the scratch (spending MUCH more than $30 for this in time*money equivalent).

Hmmm....

[handrawn]

Hey Frank we all make mistakes - draw something we think is original, only to be embarrassed when it turns out we were 'remembering' subconciously something we saw a week/month or two ago

you're a helpful guy [unlike some]