Request to repost Frank's mini-tutorials & drawings that disappeared

[covoxer]

Who exactly will consider what is important for the Forum?

Moderators and if necessary, Xara.

I don't want to be dramatic about it, I just wasn't aware of this procedure of evaluating users posts if one decides to leave.

There's nothing dramatic really. If you had decided to remove some content, you write to moderator explaining him what you want to remove and why. If the reason is the copyright matter it most certainly will be removed as requested. You may get refusal only in some really extreme cases like the case with Big Frank removing all his attachments at once to sabotage forums.

[Nostaw]

Thanks for clarifying, John.

[JokeArtist]

Hi Harry,

Many thanks for your kind words. It's been a while since I was here and from what I have read in the past few days things have changed for the better in some ways, for the worse in others. I've been through my own personal hell since I was last here and hope the worst is over and I am starting a period of relative peace and calm.

I've had a look around my User CP to see what's new, what's old and what's gone. I would be happy to post any images that people feel are helpful on the condition that I, as the copyright holder, retain control of those images. The rules state clearly on this page that All rights are retained by the original creator or copyright holder.

However, in all practicality, this is not the case. How so, you might ask? Well, if you go to your Attachments panel, you will see that you are not able to select an individual or multiple attachments to delete them. This means that if you choose to remove an image to which you hold the copyright, you have no option but to ask a moderator to remove it for you. What if the moderator disagrees and refuses where necessary to maintain forum continuity (quoted from the rules)?

Even worse, if you have the misfortune to be banned, you no longer have any access to your User CP / Attachments page. This means that you will have no way of even listing the images that are owned by you but which are no longer under your control.

I have written to Xara about this issue (as an artist and designer it is important to me) because when I raised it on these forums the matter was brushed off by certain moderators who decided I was being belligerent instead of understanding that I was raising an important intellectual copyright issue. Xara replied to me telling me that any image will be removed at a user's request. Well, as you can see from the above, if you are a prolific poster with hundreds of attachments, this is virtually impossible.

I don't know who took the decision to remove our right to delete our own Attachments, but until the ability for any user to delete any of his Attachments is restored I will be very wary of posting anything of value.

The alternative is for me to restore those mini-tutorials and copyrighted images onto my own server for public access (which I am very happy to do). However, as it states here, Images should be uploaded to the TalkGraphics server [...]. This is to ensure that such images are always available. Images hosted by third party hosts are susceptible to host closures/crashes etc and often render threads unintelligible. The XaraXone is hosted on a different server and IP to talkgraphics.com. There are god knows how many posts on this forum pointing to pages on the XaraXone, posts which will be rendered unintelligible if the site goes down. It is perhaps an unfair comparison because the same people look after the XaraXone and Talkgraphics servers, but the fact remains that an issue with one will not affect the other and vice versa (unless 1&1 Internet go down!).

In a world full of different graphic apps, I have a lot of time for Xara ones. I've always liked posting. Moreover, I like helping people. But whoever has fiddled with the users' control panel permissions has created this issue.

Sorry guys.

Hear! Hear!

Same reason I stopped posting things on here as well. The other reason was when it all went thumbnail images as well. If I create a nice tutorial that's 3000 pixels long and it's scaled down it's unreadable - so not point making them. If I'm drawing a nice image that works at 1,200 across i don't want it displayed at 800 across and loosing all the detail and being compressed by xara and then me loosing the control of it.

But it's a good job there's loads of other people willing to contribute to this forum still because I think a few of the old guard feel the same.

I know these points have already been made but it's just worth sticking up for a fellow contributor.

[handrawn]

oh yes

no serious art here from me, ever

and the way things go - maybe nothing at all

but hey there are other places to go

[gwpriester]

OK A few observations. (Yes, I am still here. You cannot get rid of me that easy ).

The fracas that took place last week was unfortunate. The one thing I have learned from many years moderating this forum is members, with a few notable exceptions, do not like conflicts, and find them disturbing. And I don't blame them. It was not easy on the moderators either. As should be obvious.

John Horn (covoxer) is better than a moderator. He is also one of the main programmers responsible for the excellent web capabilities in found in Web Designer 6 and Designer Pro 6. His contributions are exceptional especially in terms of his support in these forums, his knowledge of the products from a programming point of view, and his Tweak Set which extends the power of Web Designer 6 and Designer Pro 6. But John is a no nonsense guy and I would not get in a flame war with him. He usually wins.

Finally, if you do not like the idea of your images remaining on TalkGraphics in perpetuity, you have the option of posting on your website and adding a link either to your website or providing a URL link to where you image can be found. This can be done in the Manage Attachments dialog (see attached). So if at any time you wish to remove your image(s) simply remove them from your website and they are gone. How easy is that?

[handrawn]

you get no more than what you are prepared to put up with - a basic rule of life, is it not?

get rid of you Gary - the one rock in a stormy sea

[wizard509]

OK A few observations. (Yes, I am still here. You cannot get rid of me that easy ).

The fracas that took place last week was unfortunate. The one thing I have learned from many years moderating this forum is members, with a few notable exceptions, do not like conflicts, and find them disturbing. And I don't blame them. It was not easy on the moderators either. As should be obvious.

John Horn (covoxer) is better than a moderator. He is also one of the main programmers responsible for the excellent web capabilities in found in Web Designer 6 and Designer Pro 6. His contributions are exceptional especially in terms of his support in these forums, his knowledge of the products from a programming point of view, and his Tweak Set which extends the power of Web Designer 6 and Designer Pro 6. But John is a no nonsense guy and I would not get in a flame war with him. He usually wins.

Finally, if you do not like the idea of your images remaining on TalkGraphics in perpetuity, you have the option of posting on your website and adding a link either to your website or providing a URL link to where you image can be found. This can be done in the Manage Attachments dialog (see attached). So if at any time you wish to remove your image(s) simply remove them from your website and they are gone. How easy is that?

Good point Gary!
I thought images could be removed at any time, just not the post.
But of course I don't do it so really don't know for sure. I must be wrong about that or Gary would have said so.
What say you Gary?

[JokeArtist]

Let's do a little test with Gary's theory ...

EDIT :

As expected it takes the image and puts it onto the TalkGraphics servers - so deleting on your space is not a option.

----

I can completely understand Xara's willingness to want to keep everything that has been posted on here because there's
a number of good contributors and contributions and it builds into a valuable resource for other people to search through.
And look at. If people want to take their bat and ball home that only hurts Talk Graphics because those people can just
delete all their tutorials if they're hot linked, and not host on TG, in one easy go. Which courses TG to be not as helpful as before.
The same with the hot linked hosting that goes down or is no longer paid for - the files disappear - and posts are not longer
helpful.

But what I think that Xara has failed to recognise is that it's within the rights of contributors to do so - taking away the
control from them is an insult to the ownership of their time and effort - and actually of pretty dubious legality.
Xara obviously know this because they say - "Well if you want something deleted then you can ask a moderator". But this
just doesn't cut it.

When it comes to the content of this board - especially, that of people that have put time and effort into to help others,
and give help to people in future - that rests with the people giving help, ideas or new techniques. If Xara is serious about
content contributors and want ownership of that content or even control of it then they should be putting their hands in
their pocket, like any other business - as someone said once, "there's not such thing as a free lunch".

But I can see contributors getting annoyed because Xara want to have it's cake and eat it.

Me, I just don't bake any more cakes, cos the new Job'esque levels of control-freakery on this board have left a sour
taste in my mouth.

I only come on here to grubble like an old man - "boards rubbish now" "no new vector tools" etc etc

[gwpriester]

James, you are correct. So that leaves the option to post a link in the thread to a page on your site with the image or tutorial or whatever.

[Daniel]

Gary, I think the point that JaffDave, Handrawn and others are trying to make is even where people have created an image/tutorial and have chosen to host it on their own webspace, and then link to or embed that content into their post, that their messages have then been edited by a moderator so as to copy the image to the Talkgraphics server.

Not all moderators do it, and I appreciate that you're one of the ones that don't, but one of the ones that does - presently absent - is rather forthright in his opinion of what is best, and curt/abrupt (to British ears, at least) in response to even private questioning.

As JokeArtist similarly concludes, the answer appears to be not to post - but that simply means the forum is poorer because of the policies imposed.

JokeArtist's other point about the new enforced automatic thumbnails is a good one: we were told that the thumbnails were A Good Thing because not everyone has a quick internet connection, but in the User CP there is an option for people with slow internet connections so that they can turn off images in posts. See this screenshot - apologies that you can't read it directly, but you'll understand that it has been thumbnailed automatically...