Master pages?

[Thack]

Is the Xara team intending to introduce the concept of master pages to Web Designer any time soon?

It is very useful to have one master page on which all the common stuff (headers, navbars, etc) resides and can be edited, and which then appears on all the other pages.

Indeed, one competitor offers multiple master pages, and the user can choose which master page to apply to any given page in the website.

I can live without multiple masters, but having no facility at all is a show-stopper for me and means that - even though I've bought it - I've uninstalled it and now use a competitor's product.

If you want to see more about what I mean, take a look at Serif WebPlus X4 (http://www.serif.com/webplus/) and WYSIWYG Web Builder 6 (http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/)

Both of these compete with Web Designer at the lower end of the market, but both have good master page facilities.

I'd love to use Xara Web Designer - I'm a massive fan of Xara products. Any chance of this enhancement being considered?

Thack

[ChrisBro]

Master pages are easily achievable in either Web Designer or Xtreme it is just a case of thinking outside the box a little and being organised.

Even multiple ones you could have as many as you wanted, the way I would do it for the sake of link structire would be to simply add content empty template pages to the very end of your website and them call them thigs such as master 1 master 2 etc, make sure you dont link to them anywhere or indeed when you upload leave them out but then they are always easyily accessable in your .web file ready for use.

When you do want to use them simply click on the relevant "master page" then I think in Web Designer right click and choose duplicate page as all you need to do then is add your content and place it wherever you want within your site.

Another way would be to have them on seperate .web file then open whicever one you wanted and simply copy and paste into your .web file for your site this way though you would have to manually update each link on the page.

Go with the first way and its easy just make sure that all of the objects on the page are set as "repeating" objects then when you want to update your header or change a link on the navbar a simply click on the arrange menu and click "update repeating objects" will then update every page on the site.

There will be a few features you dont have with Xara and likewise there are LOTS of freindly features you dont get with serrif etc for all intents 2 completely different softwares, I cant understand why master pages would be so much of a problem to make you use much more un-user firendly software instead but hey each to their own.

Virtually everything is possible in WD and Xtreme there is usually just a different way of doing it thats all.

Hope that helps

Chris

[Drwyd]

Chris beat me to it but here is an example

[Thack]

Thank you for your comments.

You are right - you can emulate some of the functionality of a master page in Web Designer, although it isn't really as clean as the "genuine" master pages provided by the Serif product. As you say, in Web Designer you can create a new page by duplicating the master, and set existing objects as "repeating" so they get updated across your site.

However, there is no such automatic linkage for new content on the "master" page. For instance, if you add a copyright note, or a logo, or extra navigation arrows on the "master" page they don't automatically appear on all the other pages. It's not unusual to want to put the final, finishing touches to the look, feel and navigation of your site right near the end of the design process, which is where genuine master pages come into their own.

The easiest concept is to think of the master page as a kind of visible "layer" which sits behind the normal pages in your site. Alter the master in ANY way (changes, deletions, additions) and all the changes are instantly visible in the other webpages.

You may not see the need for such a feature, but I would respectfully suggest that's because you've never tried it! When I discovered it for the first time (in Serif WebPlus) I decided I never wanted to do without.

Actually, I intensely dislike WebPlus and don't use it, but their explicit implementation of master pages is great (showing it's origins in a DTP application).

No, I'm actually using WYSIWYG Web Builder 6, which I regard as the number one competitor for Web Designer. It is slightly more 'techie' than Web Designer, and I perhaps slightly prefer the design experience, but it does suffer from a serious lack of good styles, templates and sample websites compared with Web Designer and WebPlus.

Thank you for pointing out the best way to get master page-like functionality in Web Designer. I appreciate you taking the time, and I'll go away and have a proper play with it.

BUT: I still hope Xara will consider doing master pages properly in the next release.

Thack

PS: If I'm still missing something obvious, feel free to enlighten/ridicule me!

[steve.ledger]

For instance, if you add a copyright note, or a logo, or extra navigation arrows on the "master" page they don't automatically appear on all the other pages.

But there is a way provided:

[ChrisBro]

Hello

Sledger's post tshows you had to add such functionality, they way we have described is essentially the same as a master page as all you need to ensure is that all the object on the page are set as repeating objects and ofcourse any new ones you add as well the essentially the functionality is exactly the same you just have to click the "update repeating obkects" button to make the changes site wide.

FYI master pages have been around many years they aren't something new that serrif have come up with in fact Expression Web the facelift software for FrontPage that was launched way back in 2003/04 have used master pages since the beginning

hope that helps

Chris

PS: If you think we have missed soemthing here feel free to add a thread to the "Dear Xara" forum for the developers to see.

[Thack]

Sledger and ChrisBro - thank you, thank you! I had completely missed the feature that allows you to add something to every page in one go. Yes, you are right - this takes you as close as you could want to the DTP concept of a master page.

I'm well aware that master pages are nothing new, and that Serif didn't invent them. As far as I know they go back to the earliest DTP programs. That is why I was surprised to find they weren't implemented in Web Designer (which technically they aren't, although as you point out you can get the same basic functionality in a different way).

Anyone used to preparing pages and documents using DTP tools will do what I did: look for an explicit master page feature and get in a mess when they can't find it, go off in a sulk, grumble about Xara, and uninstall it!

Bearing in mind that all the functionality is there, but not under the banner "master page", I reckon Xara could easily wrap it up into a master page feature for people to use if they want, without interfering with any other functionality.

I will probably suggest this on the Dear Xara thread, for completeness.

However, I want to say a big "thank you" again for your help with this. I'd better reinstall Web Designer and start playing with it again!

Thack