painting in photoshop with super realism

[ozid]

Greetings, and Happy Chinese New Year to those who celebrate.

I am looking for a good tutorial or book on techniques used for painting in Photoshop 5.5, where I can achieve "super photo realism" without using a 3d graphics program.

According to my mentor "Your draughtsmanship is good, but I think your problem lies in your technique. Particularly colour, shape, form and modelling. I think, as computer artwork most often looks flat (due to the nature of the medium) you really need to approach either od two extremes of painterly techniques. The first is to paint with a kind of "Super" realism in the vein of the Italian Rennaisance painters ( Leonardo etc...) or the second is to be very stylised and focus on the marks you make."

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Mark (theKeeper)]

one looooong tutorial i'd think! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Hi ozid,

That subject would most definately be in book form, not a tutorial i'd guess. It's much too involved for a tute format.

I myself haven't seen any specific books dealing with the intricacies of this topic either. But, perhaps going through the various onLine book stores' lists might yeild something?

Does you 'mentor' not have any suggestions for books on this subject?

Perosnally i seldom use PS for any really "painterly" type of image composition. I've always generally "tried" to produce realistic images and effects - ala the real world.

But me thinks that if you're trying to create for instance an outdoor scenic image in 'photo realism', your only real problem will be your own ability to comprehend how to do that in photoshop using the various tools it has. I would think it's quite possible - if YOU have that much technical/theoretic ability that is. Photo realism requires pain-staking amounts of detail, and THAT is what would be the toughest part to produce - not by Photoshop itself, but by YOU being able to do that.
If you DO have, or can learn that much artistic prowess and patience, then i don't see a problem. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Doing this with Photoshop, theoretically, would be no different than doing it with traditional tools. It all comes down to the artist's abilities.

TOOLS:
The methods you'd most likely need to develop are with importing/creating real world textures and objects (via photos if neccessary). Those can be aqcuired in a number of ways - one being scanning photos of what you need.
As well as how to really work the painting/editing tools. Using a Stylus would be optimal for this subject matter.
And on top of that stuff, you'll need to be familiar with the various "Transform" tools; to 'mold' certain perspectives on textures.

PS: i think having to know, and being able to do all this stuff so well is what might have been a catalist for the invention of 3D programs! hehee

Hope this helps in some way?

Take care,
Mark...

[Mark (theKeeper)]

I've been toying with creating some scenic ocean-view images.

Here's a sample of something done in this vien.

The areas i'm focusing on now are:

- more detail in the foreground

- more detail in the waves (which will pretty much make the water believable)

- being more versitile with landscape

- a bit more depth in the skies

I'm also trying to create these images without using a Stylus Pen. In fact, with as little of or no 'painting' at all. I'm only using native PS filters and tools too; no fancy 3rd party plugs. As well as a TON of layers. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

The only real 'tool' used on the image below was the Smudge tool, for the waves. The rest is created just with filters and layers.

It's a trying task, but a most interesting one i think.

PS: everything in this image was created right in Photoshop. No external textures were used. That's what i think is so cool about trying to do this. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Mark...

[This message was edited by theKeeper on January 25, 2001 at 02:25 PM.]

[Beth]

An excellent book on this topic is by Bill Fleming called 3D Photorealism toolkit. He is an amazing 3d artist. His stuff is very 'real' looking. I know he has a website (but I will have to hunt around for it) that is on a subscriber basis.

The biggest problem that 3D artists have is making everything too shiny. I have seen oranges and paper bags look like they are made of glass rather than the organic matter that these objects are normally made of. Real life is not that shiny. So one thing that can be done in photoshop is to dirty up the image to make it look more realistic. But then again, you are probably best off using more appropriate lighting and image maps to begin with.

Super Realists dont really try to portray life as it is. They try to show more than what is actually there. Ken Danby is a super realist and he spends considerable time on every detail in the painting. Every raindrop on a rain jacket is painted as if viewing it close up. Even the highlights and reflections on the raindrop will be portrayed. It takes incredibly skill and observation to do this kind of stuff. A photograph is not like this. And nor is real life like this. When you are viewing something, you generally focus in on a certain area and give that more depth and detail. Other areas are less in focus and have less detail. Where as the Super Realists see absolutely every detail on everything. The italian rennaisance painters as such, were not really 'super realists'. They actually tried to use techiques to focus the viewers attention on areas of the painting like charascurro (forgive the bad spelling) where parts of the image faded off into the shadows.

Anyway, best of luck and I will try to find Bill Flemings website for you.

Beth

PS: One of the sites is

http://www.komodostudio.com

I cant find the tutorial one

[This message was edited by Beth Mohler on January 25, 2001 at 04:22 PM.]

[Beth]

That picture is very nice Mark. Nice serine quality to it.

Beth

[Mark (theKeeper)]

Well stated about realism. I couldn't agree more.

I have Bill's book on "3D Photorealism" Beth. I can't see any Web addy in it to a tutorial site, but it has the Komodo url you gave above. Great book. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

PS: thanks for the kind words. It's still an adventure in the works. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Creating sceneic scapes and the like ONLY using filter/commands (i.e. no actual painting) is a great challenge. I think everyone wanting to really 'get inside' Photoshop should give it a try! hehee

Take care,
Mark...

[Beth]

yeah...I looked for the address too. I think it has disappeared from the face of digital world. I kinda think it was www.serious3d.com . There is an ad in the book about this URL too. Just a place holder there now though. I might have a way of getting the address though from an author friend that knows Bill. If I get it, I will post it. He originally had two of these online 3D magazine sites and was thinking of doing one on Photoshop. Busy, busy.

Id like to get into the 3D stuff, just havent really invested too much time in it yet. I think it might be a marketable skill for such things as renderings of houses from blueprints etc. Oh well.

Take care,

Beth

[Mark (theKeeper)]

That sounds great Beth please do post the url if you can still get it. I'd be interested in it myself. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

3D is so cool. A different kinda 'cool' than Photoshop too. I use Cinema 4D XL. I find it SO well designed and it's VERY fast, and easy to understand and learn it's interface setup.

Hey... let's not forget the ever omnipresent "flying 3D logo" type of work too huh?! hahahaa [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[s.winders]

Hi guys.


Imagine what sort of master pieces the masters themselves could have come up with,with say PS 6 or a 3d program? makes me shudder to think.They used to prepare their own paints from pigments they ground themselves.I tried painting with egg tempera once but only once..hahaha.

Makes me feel kinda spoilt actually.

Stu.

[Erik Heyninck]

If you want to paint in the style of the great Leonardo, you will have to do things that have never been done on any computer I think.
I am a traditional painter (old Flemish style, fantastic,...)and I want to do approximately the same thing on PC. I am baffled that Photoshop might be the tool for this. Interesting (but not for my bank-account!!!)

If you're interested I can prepare a longer reply off line on some differences between the old techniques and the reason why computer art is often so plastic like. We might find a solution to this together (with everyone on this whole forum) and create a breakthrough in computer art.

One small remark, and no offence meant [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] :
you talk about Leonardo, and about your mentor, but what do YOU want? You have to unleash your creativity, and that river will have to follow its natural way towards the ocean without being canalised (hope this word exists in English) by someone elses natural flow (or canal).

One of the main characteristics of great art is that technique is not the focus of attention. Art inspires, goes beyond your (selfconstructed) limits and offers you possible or impossible worlds and universes. And in this the computer might well be the best tool ever used. But we humans can't see perfection as being "real" so we add structures, moss, decay, etching, rust etc... to feel comfortable...with our illusion.