The snapping-to-grid is absolutely shocking (in Xara Xtremem Pro5)

[shiphen]

I don't know whether Xara reads/pays much attention to these threads, and if so how often things get incorporated into future releases...

But at least I've got people talking about this.


My core point is that things need to be MUCH more intuitive to the newbie. My business partner is highly computer literate but it was a real REVELATION watching him a Xara newbie cursing and swearing as he struggled to use the Xara. The rest of us are far too close to the interface to see it clearly.

I may be a question of simply changing what the default setting of certain options ACTUALLY IS, (and/or possibly renaming them), and/or putting them in multiple place (e.g. on the right-click menu??)... but either way, if Xara is to gain the market share that it deserves the thing needs to be easier to use for total newbies.

In this instance I would separate the two options mentioned, but I aslo cant see why it BOTH locations couldnt be clickable at the same time.

Ship
(OP)


P.S. Anyone agree with me about my thoughts arrow heads?

[shiphen]

PPS. A good example is that having now discovere what the options I need is called (i.e. "Scale Line Widths") I tried to change it.

Because I hadnt ever spotted that button, I went:
Utilities ==> Options ==> Scaling.
But when I got there, there was nothing called "Scale Line Widths"
Although confusingly there is something called "Scaling for Grid Snapping" which turn out to be irrelevant.

My central point is that these days people dont tolerate needing to do training courses, look up the help, in fact even watching videos can be a pest... no, they mainly just want things to be completely obvious (and preferrably, where appropriate, to work like other software they know).

[End of rant]


Ship

[ss-kalm]

.........Anyone agree with me about my thoughts arrow heads?

Absolutely, and it has been discussed in detail previously. See this thread.

Arrowheads should be positioned by the "pointy" end ......... It shouldn't be rocket science to change it either.

[Soquili]

My core point is that things need to be MUCH more intuitive to the newbie. My business partner is highly computer literate but it was a real REVELATION watching him a Xara newbie cursing and swearing as he struggled to use the Xara. The rest of us are far too close to the interface to see it clearly.

Hi Ship,

Your business partner may be too accustomed to using another graphics program which makes him biased about how things should work.

A true newbie to graphics applications sees Xara Xtreme as being more intuitive than most other graphics applications.

An experienced user of Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Corel Draw, or Adobe Illustrator would truely curse and struggle with Xtreme because they are accustomed to how those programs work and not open to seeing the intuitive side of Xtreme. They have been trained in those applications and take foregranted that another program should work in a similar fashion.

[Soquili]

Almost forgot to comment on 'Arrow Heads'.

An arrow head is an addition and should extend beyond the end of the line to which it is attached.

Of course my opinion is probably biased by having made my own arrows and bows, as well as buying modern arrows and arrow heads that attach to the end of the shaft.

[shiphen]

@Soquili - are you nuts?
Xara is an *illustration* package, right?
You are supposed to be illustrating things/idea with it. Making (intellectual) points etc. Since when does any normal person want a line with an arrow head on it (visually) stop a some unknown distance after the end of a line, when you add an arrow head to a line?

Sorry but this is just MASSIVELY counter intuitive to any normal user.
And why the heck would you want the point on the very end of an arrow to MOVE just because you had re-sized the width of a line. [Gads]

IMHO, to say "an arrow head is an addition to a line" is utterly ridiculous to any normal designer. The human eye is drawn to the end point of the arrow head. That's the entire point of a arrow! Can't you see that? [deep sign].
Visually, by adding an arrow head in Xara you are changing the apparent length of an arrow. But why? Who the heck wants that?

* * *

@ss-kalm, that thread was in 2005 and the Xara have done nothing about it.
In any case, at a quick skim it seems that it was mainly about measuring line lengths which is NOT what I am talking about.

Sorry to be so passionate about this but I am sick of watching Xara make such poor progress on such basic aspects of the UI. I started way back when Xara was called Xara Studio. It was LIGHT YEARS ahead of the competition, but since then progress has be truly dreadful. Like watching a snail in slow motion. OK Corel wanted to cripple you guys and did for a few years, but come on Xara get the basics right? Do some new usability testing with new users. You will be appalled. There is SO much that is good about Xara, but I am so sick of watching sensible suggestions be ignored. Please listen to your users - particularly the intelligent NEW ones.

Xara - wake up!

[Odat]

I don't use arrow head lines much personally, but I can see how it could be handy to have the point of the arrow right on the very end of the line (dimension lines for example).

Soquilli has a good point about the arrow head being an addition to the line as well, though.

Changing Xtreme to render the arrow heads as part of the line would break rendering of any existing document that uses arrow heads on lines, so that's not likely to happen I wouldn't think.

It may also be a bit of a challenge from a rendering perspective. If you had say a very fat line with an arrow on it, the renderer would have to know that it shouldn't render the entire line before applying the arrow head, or it would look weird. Any change to the renderer also has the ability to produce side effects for existing documents.

Not to say that it's impossible, but it might be a bit trickier to pull off than you might think.

It would be a nice option, though.

[Odat]

@Soquili - are you nuts?
Xara is an *illustration* package, right?
You are supposed to be illustrating things/idea with it. Making (intellectual) points etc. Since when does any normal person want a line with an arrow head on it (visually) stop a some unknown distance after the end of a line, when you add an arrow head to a line?

Well, let's say you were a normal person who was illustrating a Circle of Fifths, and you knew that the sharps in key signatures always go in the order F C G D A E B. Since the notes are on the circle in that order you decide to draw a curving arrow around the outside of the circle between the F and the B, labeled with the text "Order of sharps in keys", and then stick an arrow on the right hand end of the line.

Probably people would still know that the key of A# contains sharps on F, C and G, even if the arrow head hangs off of the end of the line as you originally drew it.

[Soquili]

@Soquili - are you nuts?
Xara is an *illustration* package, right?
You are supposed to be illustrating things/idea with it. Making (intellectual) points etc.

It depends upon your use of the program. I use it to draw pictures for which exact measurements are not required. I don't use a micrometer to measure things when I use a pencil or pen to sketch. Nor do I create shapes to exact measurements within Xtreme.

When I was in the Air Force we had a saying: "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with an Axe." This saying was to remind everyone involved that extreme precision was a false ideal. Every step in the process leads further from the previous stage precision.

Even precision measuring equipment has a plus and minus tolerance. Once within that range you are only beating a dead horse to try and achieve something more precise.

As to the "unknown" you mentioned about arrow heads. A little practice using them and you can get a fairly accurate 'guess-timation'.

[ss-kalm]

Come on ....

You really want to adjust the length of everything every time you change the arrow head. I use arrowheads as pointers, but typically draw a line and the add a arrowhead. Then adjust to suit.

I cannot think of one instance when adding the size of the arrowhead to the length of the line is required. The arrowhead should be integral with the line, so that the end of the line and the end of the arrowhead is the same location