Leaving XWD Because of Immense Frustration

[suzzie1234]

Slavelle,

I hate to keep using up bandwidth here...but this seems like it is essential work.

I am so glad to hear youre having problems managing soft grouping too...Its nice to know im not totally alone.

Im having problems with soft grouping right now. Im building level 2 of my nav bar and I want to squish down the size of the buttons so there isnt a lot of unnecessary space above and below the text.

So, I stretched my soft grouped button on one layer...and wont you know...It doesnt stretch on the other layer! This is one thing that has frustrated me in the past. I wanted the soft grouping to synchronize the text characters, their centering if I changed that, and their centering in the box if I changed that, and even the box size if I changed that...I wanted soft grouping to help me with tracking....NO DEAL! As a matter of fact about all it seems to do for me right now is to copy the text string. If I correct the position or centering on one layer...the text stays at the old position and I have to manually match it up. Thats why I think cursors centering the text with align is soo good. For the last 7 buttons...I have had to rely on the "alignment of text manually" using the "align" function to have both layers match up and register. Cant tell you for sure how many tens of hours I spent in the past trying to match up the mouseOff and mouseOver states because soft group did not synchronize and register for me...I was hoping it would.

I wonder? Is there something im missing here??? Do you really have to manually "align" the text and any position changes in both layers manually by hand using the alignment (Shift Control L) feature...rather than rely on our ole friend Mr Soft Layers? I want to change the size of my box now...how would I get that size change to synchronize across the mouseOff and the MouseOver layers? The promise of soft grouping was to be able to synchronize across layers I thought?

Cursor...where's that microphone? Id be willing to overnight you one at this point!! Just Kidding.

PS EDIT: Cursor and I were typing at the same time...so I didnt see his text related post till after I posted this one here...Seems like Ole Mr Soft Group is not good at making long term friends.

So... How can I track Button Size Changes "across layers" if I change it in one layer...after its initial creation.

[cursor]

I stretched my soft grouped button on one layer...and wont you know...It doesnt stretch on the other layer!

Soft-grouping does not connect the size of like elements on different layers. Soft-grouping does two things:

1. Ensures that soft-grouped items move together.
2. Ensures same text strings on different layers. When one text string is changed, the other(s) will too. Note that this is only true if the text strings were identical when the soft-grouping was applied.

Changes to text attributes (other than string value) are NOT affected by soft-groups. For example, changing the text on one layer from 'Arial' to 'Georgia' will not affect any other layers. Bolding, color, size, justification, position, etc. are not at all connected. This allows text on a rollover layer to have a unique look.

From Xara Web Designer Help > Soft Groups:

Text Synchronisation
Any text objects which have the same text value and which are members of the same Soft Group are kept synchronized if any of those text objects are edited. So change the text in one object and any other text objects that had the exact same characters will also be changed to match. Only the text value itself if synchronized, so different text objects can have different sizes, fonts and text attributes.

Also, with respect to how soft-grouped elements behave together, (from the same Help reference as above):

Selecting one member of a Soft Group also selects all other members of the same Soft Group – even members that are on invisible or locked layers. This means when you delete, move, rotate or otherwise transform one member of a Soft Group, all the other members are similarly modified.

Cant tell you for sure how many tens of hours I spent in the past trying to match up the mouseOff and mouseOver states because soft group did not synchronize and register for me...I was hoping it would.

That's all the more reason to build the button elements in the following sequence:

1. Activate the base/static layer where you want to place your button. If necessary, create a new layer.
2. Create the button object.
3. Add the text element, properly justified.
4. Position the text on the button object.
5. Group (Ctrl+G) the elements together.
6. Create a clone (Ctrl+K). The new copy of your group is positioned exactly over the other/original button group.
7. Move then new (cloned) group to it's rollover layer. This rollover layer must be immediately above the base/static layer, AND the first eight letters of its name must be mouseover (not case-sensitive).
8. Edit the button elements on this rollover (mouseover...) layer to look however you like. Note that you can reach inside the group with a Ctrl+mouse.click. For multiple selection (inside a group), follow with Ctrl+Shift+mouse.click. You don't need to ungroup.
9. Apply a link. With both the base layer and its rollover layer visible and selectable (unlocked), lasso/marquee-select the "2 groups (soft-group) on 2 layers" (note the status line at the lower-left of your program window). Right-mouse.click and select Web Properties. Set Web Properties > Link > Link to web address > [_#_]. Click Apply.
10. Apply Soft Group

With one button created, you can simply duplicate this button as required. All you should need to do after this is to change the text value either of the two button layers.

Not that all of this is done in the mini-demo that I posted ... in about 90 seconds.

The Layer Gallery is your friend. Changing layer states (visibility and selectability) allows quick and convenient access to the various button/layer states.

[suzzie1234]

So here I am again...Now im really upset with this soft group synchronizing of text.

I have created my new layer with 3 drop downs. Each is grouped with text and the box. The drop downs were copied to the mouseOver layer and changed to match. They are still grouped.

Now I go back and want to add in my new text...Dead In the Water. Im going on 5 hours now on this stupid nav bar.

I softgrouped the buttons together thinking that at least The text would copy across...NO DEAL! I marquee selected each drop down...it said 1 group on layer 3...then when I marquee selected again it said 2 groups on layer 3 and then I soft grouped it. Then it said 2 groups (Soft Grouped) on layer 3. GOOD. But try changing the general text in the box to the actual box text...It works...but It doesnt get copied over to the MouseOver layer that it is soft grouped to. I thought Soft grouping was at least supposed to copy over the text string for me. Im going Nuts with this program and its inability to make nav bars.

I either cant read, cant learn, or have flaky software that intermittently follows the rules (as far as consistency goes)! Im Spent. Im going Home!!

EDIT: Cursor and I were typing at the same time again...so I didnt see his post on soft grouping until I finished posting my entry.

Thanks Cursor...Youre a great help and good teacher. Im spent on this nav bar crud. Iv'e spent my 5 hours of trying for today. I quit. Im teaching some seminars on Retouching...so I may not be back for a couple of days. Thanks everyone for putting up with my insane attempt to master nav bars in Xara Web Designer 5.01. Sorry.

[cursor]

Dead In the Water

Attach the file to a post ... before you go home!

Also note that I posted a lengthy entry just before your last post. You may have missed it.

[cursor]

Within a couple of days, I should have a video (with verbal explanation) or two posted. Maybe it will make more sense then.

Now I'm really off to buy a microphone!
Whew ... it has been a long day, hasn't it Suzzie?

[cursor]

Geez Louise ... so many choices in the microphone arena. I ended up buying some [relatively] cheap (non-USB) unit. I hope it works OK.

Rather than just shoot from the hip, I'm going to first outline & define a progressive set of structured videos that [hopefully] should evolve the novice user into a proficient and confident designer of web navigation — using pop-up layers and rollovers. I'm sure that I'll learn a great deal in the process. Hopefully, others will benefit from the results. We'll see.

[suzzie1234]

Cursor,

Youre such a gentleman and scholar.

Posted are my nav bars as you asked. What Disasters they are!!

The first row is the bar I tried with Slavellee method...the easy way...but it doesnt work with 2 lines of text unfortunately (I thought this was a great workaround and was going to be a great boon to menu making) It was easy to build...doesnt work in all cases. If you only have 1 line of text in your bar...this is a gorgeous method! Me... I cant use it...I have 2 line menus. Time to build 35 minutes.

The second row is from Cursors 6 page PDF document on Nav Bars...(Nice Job Cursor - very clear and detailed...and it worked). The time to create the bar and learn the concepts and digest the tutorial was 3 hours. WOW...It actually worked! This is the first time in 2 months and over 70+ hours invested in trying to learn XWD menus that something has actually worked for me! You would think I graduated third grade and had a learning disability with this frustrating menu process.

The third row - COMPLETE DISASTER...COMPLETE Frustration! I am so upset with XARA managers for not being able to address this issue with users...dont they have any factory trainers they could focus on this issue for just a few hours to tell us the real process.

The 3rd menu worked pretty good for about 5 minutes...then words would not softgroup into the mouseover layers, positions got corrupted, the more I tried the worse it got. It all stated when I was somewhat happy with my progress and I tried to copy the menu to a new document so I could show Cursor...I cant even do a simple copy of a group between pages within XWD for some reason...only the first 2 layers came across in the new document and I lost the other 8 layers of work. This is what happened to me many times before with this software...I get something the way I like and then I try to copy it to another page (supposed to be a no brainer right?) BAM, the menu malfunctions, doesnt replicate right, missing elements, bad positioning. Disaster.

I have an e-commerce business web site I would like to create and get up...but using Xara Web designer I have been unable to get on the air for 2 months...just because of the nav bar issue. I have 12 other pages created and ready to go with flash movies and paypal shopping cart buttons that work...but because of this menu problem with V5.01 I havent been able to create a navigation scheme for the site and make any money with the site. Real world consequences happen to software that doesnt work well...Im your poster child. Common Xara...fix this thing so people can make something other than basic web sites with your product. I have over 85 hours of self learning invested with the help file and the forum here, (I apologize for taking up so much bandwidth) and I have had people help me off line, and I have actually paid people to try to help develop a solution. I guess im hoping by sharing this that managers at Xara would re-prioritize, realize there is an important user issue here, refocus priorities and devise a working customer solution. There is A LOT GOOD about XWD I do truly admit...but I cant navigate to any of it so anyone can see it because of this problem.

Thanks for all your help...Im going to be gone for a few days...Everybody can take a breather...shes gone!!! Im just hoping I can help myself and others by working through this in community...maybe what im learning and failing miserably with...maybe someone else can benefit and learn something possibly, hopefully. I feel that Slavelle and Cursor are absolutely brilliant in their developing a methodology solution for all of us here...Thanks guys...I owe you one.

Suzzie1234

[steve.ledger]

Common Xara...fix this thing so people can make something other than basic web sites with your product

..err - basic easy to produce sites is what XWD is designed for. Not professional high income e-commerce sites.

Perhaps you are aiming too high with XWD?

[meltsner]

Believe me Suzzie, you're not alone here!! I found that yes, dropdown menus are about the hardest part in my book!

I've quickly redone and reposted the same .web. A bunch of things were out of place, some things duplicated, some grouped/ungrouped, I cleaned a bunch of it up, and now most of it works (although probably not how it should be set up!), BUT:
On the "Live 1 to 1 Training" tab on the bottom menu, I cannot get to work right for nothing!! In WD, everything seems to be lined up just like it should on the "btn3" and "mouseOver_btn3" layers. But when previewing, the text (in the dropdown) changes BOTH position AND size!

I've looked and looked, but can't figure out at all why it's doing this. Anyone else know why?
My suggestion would be to start over, following the various tutorials above (and coming -- looking forward to the video tutorial also!).

[suzzie1234]

Sledger,

I am a sole proprietor photographic retoucher with 1 employee. I have 4 products I want to sell at a website that has 12 pages. This is my first attempt at business. I do not consider myself to be a big business or a sophisticated e-commerce mogul or have high expectations. Have you never seen a website on the internet that has 4 products, 12 pages, and uses minimalist paypal payment buttons before.

I would like to have a navigation bar that can successfully display 12 pages of content that are already successfully created and developed with Xara... and are waiting for a simple 2 level navigation bar to be applied as a recurring element. Thats all I need.

I beg to differ that I am shooting too high...come on...all i need is a simple 2 level navigation bar that works just for once...and my expectations are too high? I apologize for this comment...im a bit bummed out after the effort I went through today.

Some at the factory... and several posts in this forum... have said that Xara is easy to use for buttons, maybe even more flexible and powerful than some other programs, really simple to implement once you catch on. Im hoping this is just a temporary phase in the development of a fine program...that caused users some consternation early on...but now they have provided a way, or an upgrade, or a training video to help the problem out. I have sent this issue to Xara support and have asked management if they would consider escalating this issue. Xara used to be the absolute leader in quick, fast, attractive, functional, and integrated web navigation buttons in the WebStyle and Menu Maker products which I own and have used for the last 6 years.