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  1. #161
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    And which behaviour is not "civilized" anymore?
    Well, I think it's one thing to move on to a different program if it's not meeting your needs anymore, it's quite another to deliberately rain on the parade of an objectively great release to a community of users with a rant about how much you hate the direction the software is taking and why you're leaving forever. That is why I felt compelled to provide a counterbalance and explain some of the reasons why I'm excited about Xara Xtreme 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    it's not the question if someone is looking down on your design work or not.
    Hm. It struck me that, "it's obvious that you don't work with CMYK very much," and "Hmm, promotional emails" was just a little bit condescending But that just reflects the core problem. Everyone thinks their universe is the only universe, that it should be obvious to everyone that something doesn't have any worth if it doesn't meet their particular needs.

    I think the Xara gallery proves without doubt that "fine art" is absolutely possible with Xara Xtreme. And sometimes, promo mails can be artful, too. Or at least clever.

    In a way, the subject of this thread is accurate, honest and neutral. Here's a guy who doesn't think that Xara is addressing his needs any more, so he's moving on. But there is an undercurrent of bitterness which I don't think is really necessary or effective. I'm sure the folks at Xara would love to get to many of the items on their (and our) wish list, like CMYK. But like everyone who lives in the real world, they have to pay the bills.

    If they can sell enough copies to "regular Joes" who foolishly want red-eye removal, to support the development of CMYK and other demands of the elite class, then more power to them. Furthermore, as covoxer pointed out...

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    Our product policy is not wrong. It is exactly what xara founders, owners and investors want it to be. It would be wrong, if they were unhappy with it.
    ...people write software, start companies, etc., because of a vision they have. That is what gives them the energy to get up each morning and put in 12-hour days. Obviously their vision is not to be an Illustrator clone.

    Honestly, apart from the fact that the specific features in V5 are very relevant to what I do day-to-day, I am grateful for the fact that they are taking this direction. It's a unique way of doing online content that is more visual and compelling than what traditional Web editors like Dreamweaver offer. (And just ask newspapers, book publishers and magazines how well print media is doing.) It's a great fusion of Web editor, bitmap editor, and vector tool. It's got some fun stuff like the 3D effects that I use more than I thought I would, and it continues to differentiate itself from the pack with its speed, usability, flexibility, and overall value. They are playing to their strengths.

    If that means that a few high-brow designer types think they've graduated to the world of Adobe, that's fine by me. They have plenty of company.
    Last edited by MerryOtter; 28 June 2009 at 03:49 PM.
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  2. #162
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by MerryOtter View Post
    Well, I think it's one thing to move on to a different program if it's not meeting your needs anymore, it's quite another to deliberately rain on the parade of an objectively great release to a community of users with a rant about how much you hate the direction the software is taking and why you're leaving forever. That is why I felt compelled to provide a counterbalance and explain some of the reasons why I'm excited about Xara Xtreme 5.
    The only problem with this, is that I don't feel like a member of Xara Ltd.'s marketing team. If some of the fanboys out there are thinking that they have to participate on a "parade", in order to increase Xara's success to such a product policy, so let them do so. But I don't think that Xara Xtreme 5 is a "great" release, the same as with the former version 4 of Xara Xtreme. And as I've learned I'm not alone with my dissappointment about the output of the Xara developer group. And unfortunately this is part of a bigger picture - I call it a trend - with wrong decisions made by Xara Ltd.

    This is not directed to you, but to some other intolerant fanboys: I don't accept the attempts from some fanboys, whenever they are trying to talk "bad" about such disappointed, often long-time customers of Xara, just because they are seeing things different after a long time of wasted hope. Yes, some of us are posting their critiques loud and clearly, but there is nothing wrong with that. The more customers are muttering their discontent, the quicker Xara Ltd. will wake up.

    Remi
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  3. #163

    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    I don't see any "raining on the parade" here. No one has tried or even implied that those who are happy with Xtreme are wrong in anyway. Why so defensive?

    I think people are simply putting their views. Xara are clearly doing what they think is right. So? Does that mean those who do not agree should just shut up and go away? Although Covoxer, and others, try, getting information about the software's future development out of Xara has often been like getting blood from a stone.

    Why does it come as a surprise that those who bought Xtreme for illustration, or it's qualities other than web design, voice disappointment at Xaras chosen direction?

    I like Xtreme, for the limited use I make of it, that does not mean it is perfect or even close, nothing ever could be perfect. It does mean I will voice my concerns and, yes, disappointment when I see that Xtreme is not going to improve the things I care about.

    Such is life.
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  4. #164
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    The Netherlands
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    2,675

    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by haakoo View Post
    Yes Steve.

    I do think that some members are searching in the minor details for little things that they can complain about.(get a life)
    The used behavior I notice everyday with my 6 year old son and 4 year old daughter.
    Yes in Iran they know how to deal with people like this.


    And now for the rest. People start with complaining, then they start walking.
    One started walking, and you are right, Xara in the end decides the road the program
    will take, and the move towards Magix isn`t bad either, the package gets
    into the stores and new customers will join, which happened.
    But if you ignore your customer base too much, it might bite you.
    Last edited by ankhor; 28 June 2009 at 05:53 PM.
    be aware, not to become a ware.
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  5. #165
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    @MarkMyWords: Yes, that's life and it will not change.

    @Ankhor: It seems you've missed out a smiley in your posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MerryOtter View Post
    Hm. It struck me that, "it's obvious that you don't work with CMYK very much," and "Hmm, promotional emails" was just a little bit condescending
    Funny, but try to look at my comments from another view: Your original posting was some sort of a "very promotional" posting, riddled with positive, advertising views about a product. If your happy with the current release, that's fine. The only thing I thought by myself: "Hmm, I see, his business is to write promotional emails...". So, my comment "Hmm, promotional emails" has nothing to do with the quality of your work, just with the "promotional" nature of your posts.

    I know very well, what kind of drawings are able with Xara Xtreme. I've done a lot of work with Xara Xtreme and I know the problems and lack of some useful tools very well, in order to save time and money or to create much more stunning artwork with this vector editor. Furthermore you'll find a lot of improvement suggestions from a lot of skilled and long-time Xara Xtreme users - myself included. But what you will not find, are fundamental changes within the software, in order to overcome the limitations over the last years. Yes, there is hope that Xara Ltd. could do some "easy to develop" enhancements, but they are tied up to their (unflexible ?) code base and therefore there is not very much hope to see fundamental changes like a own CMYK mode (just to name one missing feature) even if - and yes, if - they will sell more licenses with their own strategy.

    You don't think so? All I can say is, that the hope to see some corrections of wrong decisions is beginning with the year 1995 and is still not fulfilled. They need much more pressure from their customer base, instead of promotional posts or postings with sometimes acceptable, sometimes not acceptable "workarounds" from forum members.

    So, please don't be disappointed, if the hope is gone with a lot of long-time Xara Xtreme users - no matter if this looks like "necessary" or "effective". If you like it or not, you'll hear from us from time to time...

    Remi
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  6. #166
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada.
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    The only problem with this, is that I don't feel like a member of Xara Ltd.'s marketing team.
    Apologies if this is a language problem, but you are not part of Xara's marketing team, unless you are employed by Xara.
    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    And as I've learned I'm not alone with my dissappointment about the output of the Xara developer group. And unfortunately this is part of a bigger picture - I call it a trend - with wrong decisions made by Xara Ltd...
    You have no idea if this is a wrong decision by Xara. It's only a wrong decision as far as you are concerned.

    It seems to me that Xara have gained many more users by the introduction of the Web portion of the programme, than they have lost by not updating the vector tools. Therefore their marketing team is obviously doing things right from their point of view.
    Keith
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There are 10 types of people in this world .... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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  7. #167
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    Detroit, MI
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    Funny, but try to look at my comments from another view: Your original posting was some sort of a "very promotional" posting, riddled with positive, advertising views about a product. If your happy with the current release, that's fine. The only thing I thought by myself: "Hmm, I see, his business is to write promotional emails...". So, my comment "Hmm, promotional emails" has nothing to do with the quality of your work, just with the "promotional" nature of your posts.
    Aha, so you're not discounting my work, just my ideas?

    What can I say? I truly love Xara Xtreme. It has really come through for me, and version 5 addresses many of the issues I've had doing what I do. Pretty much everything I mentioned will be a big time-saver and enable me to use it for more projects. I guess if you're saying "FYI, there are some disgruntled users out there" then I am saying, "FYI, there's some people who love what Xara is doing."

    P.S.: check my posting history to see if I don't call a spade a spade when I see it.
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  8. #168
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by ss-kalm View Post
    Apologies if this is a language problem, but you are not part of Xara's marketing team, unless you are employed by Xara.
    Hehe, yes this is a misunderstanding. I'm not part of Xara's marketing team and I don't see the necessity for other members to act like a member of their marketing team - unless they are paid for doing this (no, I don't think Xara will spend money for this...).

    Quote Originally Posted by ss-kalm View Post
    It seems to me that Xara have gained many more users by the introduction of the Web portion of the programme, than they have lost by not updating the vector tools. Therefore their marketing team is obviously doing things right from their point of view.
    On the other side: Do you know the number of selled licenses? I don't think so, because they will not be published. It's also not known how many new forum members are just giving the new demo version a trial and are asking questions about this and how many are actually making a purchase decision.

    I could name you the amount of the loss of the current segment, where Xara Ltd. belongs to, if that's interesting for you. If they are really successful with their strategy, you should see a significant change in the loss within the current quarter.

    But I must say, I'm not so much interested in their business success. If they go down the hill - so what. If they have great success - so what. My work with their vector editor will not influenced by this - until they're offering some important improvements I'm interested in. Simple like that.

    Remi
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  9. #169
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Do you have the figures to say otherwise?
    Maybe find some stuff here.
    http://content.magix.net/cms/magix_a...009_nocopy.pdf
    Last edited by haakoo; 28 June 2009 at 09:27 PM.
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  10. #170
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    Default Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

    Yes, you can use the mentioned PDF file, in order to learn something about the business success. In order to interprete the business figures right, it's important to learn something about the different segments within the MAGIX AG:
    • The multimedia segment contains the main business of MAGIX with their video and other multimedia products (the core business).
    • Xara is not in the multimedia segment, but in the venture segment (because of the different risk structure) together with the Online Services, and the Mufin music recognition and music recommendation technology.


    At page 28 of the mentioned PDF file you can find the results of the different segments. The venture segment, where Xara belongs to, has generated a loss of -1.169 kEUR (EBIT) in the reporting period.

    Regards,
    Remi
    IP

 

 

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