XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down

[JET]

$54 (plus shipping) is not "nothing", but it's modest. It's another example of "nickle-and-dime-ing" customers to death for very incremental upgrades. Moreover, though, version 5 should have been free (download or shipping-only for disk) to Xtreme 4 Pro users who also jumped right in and bought Web Designer.

I am not opposed to WebDesigner's (now Xtreme's) approach to WYSIWYG webpage creation. In fact, I find it a refreshing and enjoyable departure from the plethora of conventional-wisdom page/site tools (Dreamweaver, et al).

Like no doubt most here, I am by far primarily centered toward vector illustration. Also like no doubt many here, I can code my own XHTML and CSS when I have to or want to; I dutifully pay my semi-annual "subscription fees" to Adobe for incremental tweaks; I do some fairly intensive ActionScript stuff and am even experimenting with PHP-based interaction between Dreamweaver and FileMaker Pro.

But sometimes you just don't need (or want) all that. So I strongly applaud Xara's emperor-has-no-clothes offering in this, and do not find it at all inappropriate for a vector drawing program. It's like the simplicity of a resurrected PageMill, updated to CSS/XHTML standards, conveniently and unobtrusively integrated as a feature set into a decent drawing program. I have no problem with it, and anticipate having use for it.

Although many Xara users know it could be enabled with XaReg, making page size-independency part of the standard interface is one of the most important "new" features, from a marketing perspective. I consider it a class act that that was relatively understated in the new feature list; compare to Illustrator CS4's over-ballyhooed, decades-ovedue, and awkwardly-interfaced allowance for multiple Artboards. It's an example of the kinds of straightforward powerful simplicity (elegance) that has been so long missing in the vector world (since the abandonment of Freehand) and that users are hungry for. Good job on that.

(I would, however, like to see elegance more devotedly pursued in other areas of Xtreme; otherwise, this program will become just another cluttered yet incomplete and unsatisfying hodge-podge.)

Alas, the most debilitating aspect of Xtreme remains its absense of a decent Bezier path tool! The Shape Editor and Pen need to be thoughtfully combined into one elegant tool that not only matches, but surpasses, the functionality of the main Bezier tools in other programs. As they presently are (even despite a couple of hopeful aspects of the Shape Editor) they are horribly primitive compared to long-standing norms.

I can't stress the importance of that enough. The Bezier drawing tool is the heart-and-soul of a vector illustration program. Xtreme will feel like an intriguing yet disappointingly awkward toy by users of the mainstream vector programs until that one thing gets addressed.

JET

[kinetica]

Perhaps we - those people who use forums and who discuss and disect and experiment - are not part of Magix's grand aims for the Xara suite.

[pauland]

LOL, probably not!

[w00dy]

Given that there was web capability in Xtreme for almost a year before the advent of Web designer, enhancing Xtreme to have the same tools as Web Designer makes complete sense to me. The acid test comes when Web Designer, still in its embryonic stage of maturity as a piece of software, gets a shot in the arm to address its shortcomings in FTP and ease of menu creation. If that occurs, as one would hope, before the end of the year, you'd expect it to be a freebie and along the same lines a patch for Xtreme like so.

Not that I do anything very complex, so I might not notice a change anyway, but amid all this accusations of becoming "bloatware", has anyone seen any degradation in the performance of Xtreme. I haven't. In my book, bloatware is something that slows things down and not additional features that are proving to be "quite useful".

[handrawn]

. In my book, bloatware is something that slows things down and not additional features that are proving to be "quite useful".

That's very well said too

There have been changes that have interrupted my workflow, but not because of additional features, because of straight changes - eg the way fills now work, compared to xtreme 2......

[MarkMyWords]

I don't see the addition of web capabilities as "bloatware". To be honest, I haven't even noticed those features, don't use em, not interested and they don't intrude on my workspace, so fine - good luck and joy to those who do use em, no skin off my nose.

- But Xtreme is advertised as a design and illustration package, so don't be too hard, on those of us who have been looking for new vector tools, for some time now, and are a little disappointed again.

The Object gallery is very good, masks are interesting and there are some nice tweaks too, but for me, as an illustrator, there is not that much to get excited about.

Hey Jet, don't dis the shape editor tool man! I love it, I'm in love with it, I wish it would have my babies... well it does it for me anyway. Okay, it is a little idiosyncratic, but in a good way. I much prefer the way it works to other programs bezier tools.

[zaphodeist]

I hope they don't mess with the shape editor, just getting to the point where I can say I control it

[slavelle]

My input:

I have xtreme4+xwd. I have traditionally used MS Expression Web as a programming IDE, basically, and coded my sites from scratch, first using PaintshopPro, then xtreme for my graphics creation and web page mock ups.

When xwd came out, I took interest because of some of the "proof of concept" stuff I wanted to do. It's a great website prototyping tool, and now xtreme5pro adds to that, especially in the case of the object gallery (which is not yet in xwd and may never be or might be next month...). Multipage, multilayer docs with detail down to the object through a hierarchy is really going to help me plow through some things.

What I don't understand is the thought process that there must be only one way; that tools must be exclusively used; that just because one tool can get you to a certain place faster and cheaper (and without programming skill) than another at the expense of the code creation going on behind it - when it meets/exceeds the client's needs somehow makes it "less professional" confuses me.

I still code some things traditional html/css, I still create and slice graphics as needed, I still create/modify Joomla! templates, and now I have the options of using Xara for its web designing features where it fits the purpose.

Why does it have to be exclusionary? I also use Swishmax for Flash - because Xara products CAN produce Flash, does that mean that I should stop using Swishmax? Does Swishmax/Flash CS3 mean that Xara shouldn't include a rudimentary way to create simple animations within the same environment.

The right tool for the job...

[BobInce]

Another thing: I can finally write the Polish "ł" character (right ALT + L) but.. now right ALT + C makes a copyright sign... WTF?

Yeah, I wish Xtreme would stop fiddling with the keyboard layout. See http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=32073

who creates web pages directly in a gfx program and then exports it with stupid mouseover or something?

Someone without a basic understanding of how web page layout works. (There are quite a lot of these people, it turns out.)

So the web tools are crap for me, useless stuff, really.

Well for producing finished sites, yeah. It's great for prototyping though.

[stlewis]

Can I chip in with another comment on why the website functions are useful to a 'pro'...

One of my clients wants landing pages within their site to link in to marketing campaigns; an advert has the URL going to a page. They want is 'designed' - to resemble the advert, rather than the rest of the website - but then with links to other pages in the site. They don't need SEO. They just want it quick! And that is how XWD and now XX5 helps me...