XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down

[Boy]

I'm a web designer ... I've played about with XWD ... it's complex and gives crappy outputs ... not acceptable for a professional job for a client.

Could you please expand on this? What is complex and what is crappy? What is lacking in XWD that makes it non-professional?

[haakoo]

Boy,

Better not react on the statements JA makes,
He is always P**ing at everything here and complaining as if life hurts only him by not complying to his every wish.
I think a professional is someone who works with every tool available to make whatever endproduct.
If you can't handle a tool,learn how,but don't blame another or something else

[Boy]

I still like to hear his opinions. And Sponsi can jump in as well since he has similar views.

[haakoo]

Non conformism is nice,but get's you only that far.
Everyone has opinions,i can think of a thing or two i'd like to have in Xtreme.
It's the tone of the statements that brushes of many of the members.
He has some points but he makes me think he is a spoiled,only child,the way he is kicking and screaming.

[Sponsi]

Look at it the other way - maybe you are just fanboys accepting anything the company offers?
If it wasn't for the people who "want more", we would still use MS Paint.

As for my views, I've written enough of them earlier. The whole idea of taking more web design into Xara products simply doesn't seem compatible with the usual moves designers make. Xara Web Designer is at this point of development when it's not enough for some people and it's too much for others.
Besides...how many of you really are web designers? I guess when it comes to raster, raster designers should shout.. when it comes to vector tools, vector designers should shout (and they shout - and come on, you can see what they are saying: too little of change this time when it comes to vector tools), when it comes to making Xara more into web design, web designers should shout... and we shout. Let people have their say. Another thing is that there are many different methodologies for web design. As for me.. well, I wrote about it earlier - I am NOT interested in poor, simplistic HTML mouse over stuff... this is not contemporary web design.

Someone wrote somewhere else in this forum that this is for people who don't have advanced technical knowledge about building web sites... well... they won't have this knowledge with new Xara Web Designer or Xara 5 or 6 or any other tool... it comes with time and practice.. you either go into the web designing business "all the way" or stop pretending. Simplistic tools only make the Internet worse because of low quality (I mean technical - programming quality) - such tools as Web Designer promote "one click web site creation". And the industry ends up with self-made poor stuff... someone else mentioned the economic reasons for such development, or such direction.. and you know what - this distorts the industry and the web design market as well... and might turn out the opposite. This is probably why Photoshop and its CS web design collection is so expensive (I guess if Xara was taken over by Adobe it would not be 100 pounds but 500 or so). But this is a deeper discussion I guess. Let's not make such a big offtopic here.

And... I don't need the changes which are offered to me with "5"... or let's say - these changes are not enough for me to call the new version a "5"...

That's all, nothing else. Can you just take such views into consideration without going personal? Nothing personal here, we love Xara like you do! It might be the situation here that this is the moment when Xara is beginning to be "for everything".. and there's this danger that it might end up being for nothing and for no one.

My final thoughts:
Xara Xtreme should come out with number 5 like in 2-3 months with more vector tools and Xara Web Designer should have been more thought over so that it's "Xara for web" and not a customization studio for everyone (meaning "for no one"). Generally good thinking but much worse implementation of the idea which was supposed to bring commercial success.

EDIT (I don't want to create numerous posts):

haakoo.. well.. I don't know JA, I've only been a few times here but I remember times when I was completely ****ed at something (very often it was CorelDraw when suddenly it turned out it wasn't a good choice for a web designer).
I can't agree with living with what is offered to me. If I have a forum where I can express my dissatisfaction, I will use it.

[haakoo]

Actualy my nature is more like yours and that of JA.
I don't like a lot of things that aren't the way i like them to be.
I grew up and made me think of things before reacting to things at hand.
So maybe i'm getting soft but i have less trouble with my pears,
this in contrast to people like JA.
I already said he has points but his tone i don't like.
Freedom of speach/opinion doesn't mean that the one who shouts the loudest,always get's what he wants.
So live with the tools at hand or be off.
If there's nothing to wish for anymore,one could rather be dead.

[MarcT]

Xara Xtreme should come out with number 5 like in 2-3 months with more vector tools .

Yeah it's my impression also, all eggs seems to be in the same basket. I guess you cannot make everybody happy.

Although I can understand the huge amount of man-hours just to implement a layering system and cross-layer group functionality that works properly.

Xtreme is still the best for speed and workflow by far, but I was also hoping for new vector tools.

Marc

[sunland]

Until you popped in Hans, this post was about criticizing a piece of software and asking questions about that, you are the one that is taking it to the level of personal criticism.
time for you to chill.
adios

[geminiguy]

No arguing people... keep it on a technical level. None of this discussion should be personal in any way.
Everyone has a right to discuss their feelings on the software at hand, but not on how they perceive others views.
Keep in mind, this is a very vast community with countless personalities. Let the mods decide if one's comments are not acceptable.

On another note, Xara is unique, in the way that it does not perform only one function.. it is more than just a vector tool, and the developers can only concentrate on so many areas at one time per release.

[Albacore]

I must agree with what most of JA has written here in this thread the cry from most of the drawers here has been about vector tools and the lack of updates. In the last 10 years how many new vector tools have we had? Now I am talking vector tools here not bitmap special effects so that excludes things like Live Effects, 3D Tool, Bevel Tool and Shadow Tool. There is not much left on your tool bar to exclude and when I open my version of Illy, only CS3 I am afraid to say and then look at version 8 on my laptop and look at the changes there it is a different ball game.

However what has it cost me to upgrade? £34, that is the price of a plugin. With this sort of pricing I have upgraded because with the extra tools given. It will stop me even more from reaching for PS and Word and a Screen Capture Tool. So what is there to loose!

But come on Xara Team it is now your turn to give me decent vector Brushes, decent Line Profiles and maybe a Gradient Mesh Tool. As JA stated he would be willing to pay £200 on a substantial upgrade and it would stop me from giving the same amount of money to Adobe if this type of upgrade continues from Xara as we are falling behind.