Dedicated node edit tool...

[morphonius_821]

I for one would like a dedicated node edit tool as i am tired of having to juggle the shape editor tool around its modes as an input tool Vs editing tool...
Which is rather tiresome in my view, a dedicated node edit icon/mode would save people a few steps when node editing, eliminate some frustration which can occur when in a hurry and also stream line the work flow when needing to edit nodes ETC....

[steve.ledger]

What is it about a 'node' that you would like to edit which can't be done with the shape editor?
Lines, nodes, handles, cusp or smooth joins can all be easily adjusted with just this one tool.
Is there something else?

[MarkMyWords]

I'm with Sledger, I don't understand what you mean. For me the shape editor tool is close to perfection, not quite perfect, but damn near.

I use it with, straight-line and cusp (corner) modes selected as default.

That way you can lay down straight lines and then drag them to curves if needed, you can place new nodes anywhere on a line with a single click, on a straight line it will be a corner node and on a curve it will be a smooth node.

You change each node from one state to another with a double-click.

Selecting a node and pressing delete will delete that node, pressing the B key will break the line at that node, dragging an end node over another end node (of a selected line) will connect them.

Dragging a bounding box over a selected line/shape will select several nodes at once, or shift-clicking on several nodes in turn will do the same for picking out nodes in more complex arrangements.

Holding down the CTRL key while placing a new node will constrain the angle of the straight line to vertical, horizontal or 45 degrees.

You can set options so that pressing and holding space will temporarily switch to the select tool and back to the shape editor when you release space.

Using the shape editor this way, with the select tool on the space bar and having the mouse wheel set to zoom when rotated and pan when pressed and dragged, means I can work very fluidly with minimal interruptions for tool changes.

Damn! I love the shape editor in Xtreme, it's fan-bloody-tastic!


I would love to see a hot-key and drag operated width setting. Say ALT+drag left or right with the shape editor, or even use the mouse wheel, to adjust the line width.

And a quick and easy way to select line shapes would just about make it perfect, but that may be a tall order.

[steve.ledger]

or even use the mouse wheel, to adjust the line width.

Hi Mark,
Click inside the line 'Set Line Width' box and roll your mouse wheel to change the line thickness. You won't loose the currently selected tool by doing this, so you can go back to your drawing and continue (without clicking back to it)

[handrawn]

Steve - what you say is true

However it only scrolls through the preset line widths - which is very limiting when trying to make fine adjustments to line weight - in fact, its really not much help at all to me.

what I would love to be able to do is scroll the wheel and the line thickness adjust in real time continuously rather than in steps - much faster to find exactly the right size value...

[MarkMyWords]

Yes, I knew about this. Steve/Handrawn gave the reply I would have, I often manually put in widths that are not on the drop-down. Perhaps illustrators are more fussy about the weight of lines than designers, but thanks anyway.

[jclements]

If you are doing precision work and want to do it quickly or have a lot of it to do, then I can think of two nodes functions which would be very useful:

1- select nodes, and then double-click to get rotation handles to interactively rotate the selection

2- select nodes, and then be able to use the Alignment dialog. For cusp nodes you can use the Info Bar's angle input field, but that requires typing in values, one node at a time. Snapping to a guides is another options, but too slow.

[morphonius_821]

What is it about a 'node' that you would like to edit which can't be done with the shape editor?
Lines, nodes, handles, cusp or smooth joins can all be easily adjusted with just this one tool.
Is there something else?

i know its not a big deal or anything but it does seem to trip me up enough to be annoying...but not enough that i can put my finger on the exact behavior that sees be expecting one behavior and experiencing another...
Perhaps this will remedy itself when i have a bit more experience with extreme...

I'm with Sledger, I don't understand what you mean. For me the shape editor tool is close to perfection, not quite perfect, but damn near.
.......................
You change each node from one state to another with a double-click.

That is one thing that i don't like about this tool actually and the reason i do not use it...i.e. that the way it is set-up almost mandates that you are going to need to change nodes via editing after the fact by double clicking or changing icons or what ever....
I don't think this is easy.... i would much rather put down a corner with a right mouse and have it be created right the first time than to have to revisit a node to set it right after the fact...
This double handling would not be needed if the right mouse were freed up (in my view...) from serving up a right click menu for this tool.... and were instead used to insert corners....
i wouldn't expect you to agree (considering that you think it is already almost perfect) but personally i would like to see the whole ethos (with respect to this tool) of considering edits as a necessary and integral part of the input process itself change to a mindset where by people could expect the right node sequence to be created first time... so by tweaking the input process itself to eliminate the need to edit as much as possible this could well be achieved....(as i said by utilizing the right mouse for something else rather than the normal standard right click menu...shock horror...)

[ss-kalm]

That is one thing that i don't like about this tool actually and the reason i do not use it...

If you don't use it, I'm not sure what you do instead ...... Throw caution to the wind, and get used to how it works. As Mark stated, for me "the shape editor tool is close to perfection" ..... it just seems to work. Offhand, I can't think of any improvements that I would make.

[morphonius_821]

Diverging a little from the thread.....(as we are now discussing the input aspect of the node editor tool)

I guess its work flow and method of this tool must appeal strongly to a certain demographic (in its current form) as you and a few others seem to love it and be determined to champion its cause...

And I don't disagree with you really in most respects.
I agree that this tool has allot to commend it and i actually applaud it in many respects.
However everybody has their deal breakers and having to double handle/edit nodes as an integral part of the input process is a deal breaker for me...

I mean of course some tweaking/editing is always going to be necessary in some cases due to the user never being perfect...
but personally i resent having to double handle nodes to get the node type right in the first place.....
Thats where the input method should come to the party. i.e the way i see it the input method is the vehicle for creating the correct node type and having to rely on manual style editing to me signifies a total failure in this respect.

To me double handling (by way of revisiting nodes with double clicks) or changing modes mid stream should never be necessary to switch between corners and curve nodes....(This is my opinion...)

And for me this is a total deal breaker.... totally unforgivable....

I realize you don't mind double handling your nodes...(thats the way i see it anyway...)
and i realize you don't think this way and actually like the set-up the way it is....(i can not understand this personally but i understand people are different so enjoy it in its current state...good luck to you i'm glad you like it the way it is...)

But i don't believe unfortunately i could learn to live with this as...as i have already said this is a deal breaker for me... and i real shame actually as other wise i totally agree with you....aside from this the tool is awesome.....and further more i dont think it would take much to fix this tool (as an option) without needing to change the way it currently works.
I.e a simple option in the settings to have a (right mouse = sharp corner )option would make me happy and people like your selves who do not want this would not have to use this option.....
But for people like me.... i could not use it otherwise...