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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Edit: Sten I appreciate your subsequent recent changes to your blog article, however I still request that you remove my name - thanks
    I have removed your name Sledger
    Cheers,

    Sten
    "Everything has two sides"

  2. #22

    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Thank you Sten

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boy View Post
    I find it exciting to see how the developers try to put the technical part of web designing 'under the hood'. I am aware that some people are upset about this 'covering up' because -- as I understand it -- they see beauty and necessity in up-front, out-in-the-open coding and they present all sorts of arguments to make their point.
    Dear Boy - and other who think that I hate XWD - please understand that I was and am happy to see XWD on the market!

    I have tried to say it in my blog, but obviously not had too much success with it: I only want future XWD to be more aware toward the stuff under the hood. As I also said before: A perfect website comes out of a perfect
    cooperation of "both sides": The design and the logic on a website.
    Cheers,

    Sten
    "Everything has two sides"

  4. #24

    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by netsi View Post
    Dear Boy - and other who think that I hate XWD - please understand that I was and am happy to see XWD on the market!

    I have tried to say it in my blog, but obviously not had too much success with it: I only want future XWD to be more aware toward the stuff under the hood. As I also said before: A perfect website comes out of a perfect
    cooperation of "both sides": The design and the logic on a website.
    Sten, I know there are many web designers that want to see "under the hood". I think there are a multitude of programs out there that provide that functionality. What Xara is providing is an afforadable solution to those of us who want good web sites, easy design, but cannot afford programs like Dreamweaver. I don't do complicated websites. My sites are for games I play (LOTRO, Warhammer, etc.) and a family one. I learned to make pages in a text editor, and never could find an affordable program for design that was easy to use. I stuck with text, and kept my sites simple.

    With WD, I am going to be able to make my sites much more dynamic and complicated. In fact, the ability to let WD generate the code is going to make my sites MORE interactive, not less.

    So, I happen to disagree with your assesment. If I want to see the code, its easy enought to generate the site and open the files in a text editor.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by netsi View Post
    Dear Boy - and other who think that I hate XWD - please understand that I was and am happy to see XWD on the market!
    Where do I say that I think you hate XWD?

    Quote Originally Posted by netsi View Post
    I have tried to say it in my blog, but obviously not had too much success with it: I only want future XWD to be more aware toward the stuff under the hood. As I also said before: A perfect website comes out of a perfect
    cooperation of "both sides": The design and the logic on a website.
    I don't exactly understand what you mean when you say that you want "future XWD to be me more aware toward the stuff under the hood". But if I take your words literally, I would say that putting stuff under the hood successfully (meaning that the program works well) requires an enormous amount of awareness (on the part of the designers).

    Or are you perhaps saying that XWD is becoming a bit like a modern car with EPS and all the other (under-the-hood) hi-tech electronic systems that give the driver more control over his car but, at the same time, make him less responsible for how he drives?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Ok, reading once again Stan's comments I guess I finally grasped where the confusion coming from.
    Stan, the thesis' that you quote form the Xara marketing materials are not exclusive as you interpret them. Let me explain on examples.
    “Creating websites should be like creating PDF files - you should not need to know anything about what happens ‘under the hood‘”This means that there must be a way to create web sites the way we create PDF. This doesn't mean that this has to be the only way as you imply.

    “it provides no HTML code view, and no abilities to program Javascript”This was said in context that it allows you to create sites without even needing code view and JS. You interpret it as code or JS are prohibited in WD, which is weird as you know well about all the snippets, placeholder capabilities and the willingness of Xara to make it flexible. Remember how header placeholders were added after WD release as a response to the users request? How does it fit your interpretation of this phrase?

    One more thing, you disagree that: "“It’s evident that the vast majority of websites are of a graphical nature”". You can disagree of course, but the truth is that most pages on the web (by number, not visitors traffic) are amateurs pages. As you later clarify - "serious websites...". But think about it - are the "serious websites" majority of the web? I don't think you believe it.

    So, Stan, you simply got a bit incorrectly the meaning of the article that you quote. It doesn't actually oppose most things you say.

    PS I'm answering here instead of your blog due to several personal reasons.
    John.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boy View Post
    Where do I say that I think you hate XWD?
    Hmm... I think that I was carried away by my emotions and wrote what I was feeling at the moment of writing. This comment of mine have awoken some strong feelings and at a time I felt that many people were indicating that I hated XWD... Sorry, Boy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boy View Post
    Or are you perhaps saying that XWD is becoming a bit like a modern car with EPS and all the other (under-the-hood) hi-tech electronic systems that give the driver more control over his car but, at the same time, make him less responsible for how he drives?
    If XWD were to be categorized as a "modern car with EPS and other hi-tech electronic systems" then that would not be totally wrong. It lets you focus on driving it while enjoying the ride (the user interface gives you comfatable airconditioned ride). And it will get you safely to your goal: A website of your wish. It will use EPS and ABS if nessesary to prevent you from steering of the webstandard road.

    I know that some very experienced drivers prefer to be 100% in controle, having no extra hi-tech help systems, things like ABS is in their opinion not a good thing, cause they can handle it manually based on their experience, but for the most of the drivers it is a good think I guess.

    Back to XWD. I want this "car" to offer both the smooth ride, the high-tech help systems and the options to add extra functionality during the ride and add things which will let you drive to higher goals!

    These extre features should be transparent in their way to integrate, meaning that you will not see them as extras once you have them "installed". Like the plug-in option in the sister product of XWD called Xara Extreme Pro - it will let you apply (adobe photoshop) many standard plug-in effects to vector/bitmap elements without leaving the product!

    These extra features will add transparent integration with evolving web standard features like the many javascript effects based on jQuery (see examples: Sliders, Accordion) or any other dynamic content webparts.

    So I hope you understand that I only wanted to comment on the current state of this great product, while addressing things which I see might be a side that could be extended to make this product even better!
    Cheers,

    Sten
    "Everything has two sides"

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    Remember how header placeholders were added after WD release as a response to the users request? How does it fit your interpretation of this phrase?
    Perfect! I commented in the hope to make this product even better, and as you correctly mentioned I probertly got some of the statements wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    But think about it - are the "serious websites" majority of the web? I don't think you believe it.
    Well, I have previously used Xara Extreme Pro for producing serious websites and am hoping to start using XWD to do things like muck-up of websites too - also for serious web-sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    So, Stan, you simply got a bit incorrectly the meaning of the article that you quote. It doesn't actually oppose most things you say.
    Thanks, maybe I should try to pratice my poor english so I do not repeat this...
    Cheers,

    Sten
    "Everything has two sides"

  9. #29
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    Question Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Just got an idea: Why not make a new forum called something like:
    Xara Web Designer - "under the hood"

    A forum where the technical (HTML/CSS/Javascript and other web-technical elements) can be discussed. For instance:
    1. How do we make the output from XWD more jQuery (and other javascript API) friendly?
    2. Avoiding inline style and using CSS classes.. what would be perfect?
    3. Adding a standard which will allow for easy integration with web based content in websites generated by XWD. In a manner simular to the plug-in of Xara Extreme Pro.
    Such issues which are focused on the "other" part of any website: The "under the hood" part, and not the design/layout part.

    What do you think?
    Cheers,

    Sten
    "Everything has two sides"

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    2,439

    Default Re: Comments on "About Xara Web Designer"

    Hi Sten,

    I think John (covoxer) is on the way to develop such things.

    See post #44 in this thread and John's answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    It's not a fight against standards, it's management of development resources. Any feature that is useful and is not present is a potential feature to implement. But there are a lot of them, and development resources are limited. So the question here is not do it or not, but what to do first. That's all.
    Regards,
    Remi

 

 

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