Google Chrome does not render WS4 Menus

[Tabvla]

Google Chrome does not render drop-down or fly-out menus that have been created with Webstyle 4.

Example (This only applies to menus created with Webstyle 4)

Assume a site has a menubar running across the top of the page. Some (or all) of the menu items contain sub-items. In IE, Firefox and Opera when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu the menu sub-items will drop down immediately beneath the top menu item. This is normal behaviour.

In Google Chrome, when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu item, the menu sub-items don't drop down beneath the top menu item but appear at a random place anywhere on the page.

The exact same behaviour applies to fly-out menus.

Assume a menu on the left of the page which contains sub-items. Normal behaviour is that when the mouse cursor is placed over the menu item the sub-items will be displayed adjacent to the menu item. In Google Chrome the sub-items appear anywhere at random on the page but not adjacent to the menu item.

This is a big problem for anyone who has developed site menus using Webstyle 4.

T.

[steve.ledger]

Google Chrome is very much early public beta.
I'd wait until newer versions are released before considering it a mainstream browser.

Did you use the 'Report a bug or broken website..' feature of Chrome to alert Google?

[Tabvla]

I agree that these are early days for Chrome. And to answer your question, yes I have reported it to Google.

JavaScript has been with us since the very early days of the Internet and as a programming language it is a mature, well-defined and established part of web development. If Chrome is not rendering certain JS-based functions correctly, then that is a major concern, because this lies deep within the core of the browser and is not just an "oops lets fix it" type of issue.

As a test I created sample drop-down and fly-out menus but did not use WS4. These were rendered perfectly by Chrome. So at this stage it appears as if the rendering problem may be confined to menus created using WS4. That would be a major problem, because it is extremely unlikely that Google will modify core code in Chrome to accommodate sites developed using WS4.

WS4 drop-down and fly-out menus have worked without any issues for years in all versions of IE, Firefox and Opera. Developers should therefore be confident that the WS4 code is standards-compliant and is robust and that any problems are browser-related and not WS4-related.

However, I believe that it is incumbent upon Xara to assign some resources to investigate the cause of this issue. If it is a WS4 problem then we need a fix. If it is a Chrome problem then Xara need to exert pressure on Google to rectify the browser rendering engine.

It is almost certain that Chrome will become a major browser within 3 years, so core issues like this need to be addressed early in the process. It will be too late once the core code in Chrome is finalised.

T.

[steve.ledger]

However, I believe that it is incumbent upon Xara to assign some resources to investigate the cause of this issue. If it is a WS4 problem then we need a fix. If it is a Chrome problem then Xara need to exert pressure on Google to rectify the browser rendering engine.

One of the problems web masters thought was about to happen was "Oh no! Not ANOTHER browser to make may page work with" But the Chrome team made sure this wasn't the case by using the same open source webkit browser renderer that Safari also uses, therefore anything that works in Safari will work in Chrome.
If you view the Google announcment video you will hear the guys speak about this and more. Interesting stuff by the way.

Google Chrome announcement (52 minutes)


In so far as Webstyler being updated? I couldn't really say, though I believe there have been no updates to this older app in 4 years or so. Now that Magix are a major factor it remains to be seen as to whether webstyler will receive any attention at all, given that the move to XaraXtreme4 html output has been made.

[Tabvla]

Hi Steve

Thanks for your insight and the link to the video.

I still think (Magix or not) that Xara has a responsibility here. WS4 is still being actively sold, so presumably there are budding developers out there that are laying out their cash. In fact Xara frequently promote WS4 in magazines and by email. This is not an "old" product or "old" version of a product that needs to be pensioned off. There is probably a legal and certainly a moral obilgation by Xara to fix WS4 if it transpires that the problem lies with WS4 and not Chrome.

The real problem I suppose is that most developers that use WS4 realise that it is not W3C compliant. Just try running a validation against a site that incorporates menus created with WS4 and the validation tool will have a seizure!! But.... those of us who use it and love it also know that it renders perfectly in all the popular browsers - IE, FF and Opera.

Xara are well known for creating outstanding products - and I own every single product that Xara has ever produced - so I know what I am talking about. What Xara is not good at is Support or bug-fixing. And to be fair the reason for that is that they probably don't do a lot of bug-fixing as their products tend to work "out-of-the-box".

I don't know too much about the Webkit Browser toolkit, so I won't show my ignorance by commenting What I do know about is how the vast majority of developers think when it comes to testing websites. If it works in IE and Firefox many developers won't bother to test any further. The more dedicated will also test in Opera. And then a few - perhaps 10% - will test in Safari. For many if it works in Safari that is good news, if it doesn't they don't care. I am not advocating that attitude of mind, but simply stating the way things are.

In this one critical respect Chrome is different to Safari. It really does matter that sites are Chrome-compatible. I will bet a months pay on Chrome becoming a very serious contender for top-dog within 3 years. Google have the money; the technical expertise; the marketing knowledge and the user-base to dominate the browser market.

I think that the message is clear. Websites had better work with Chrome.

Xara have a real responsibility to investigate this and if the problem lies with WS4 then either they should fix it or they should remove it from the product line.

T.

[handrawn]

Hi Tabvla

I think you are jumping the gun a bit as Steve says Chrome is beta - long way to go yet.

In any event, unless Xara sell the software stated compatible with all known browsers, and/or sold it to be compatible with all future browsers, there is no obligation here on them that I can see, legal or moral.

If xara/magix wish to carry on selling it there may be commercial pressure - but again like Steve I see the introduction of HTML into xtreme as an indicator that WS may well be on the way out...

I for one shall be very interested to see how far this browser goes - Google is no better than Microsoft to many, and as for those who don't see a problem with either, will they bother to change ?

[Tabvla]

Hi Steve & Steve

Thanks for your feedback and sharing your views. Always interesting to hear the opinions of others.

I suppose it is time for me to put my money where my mouth is .... so here's the deal - I will buy each of you a case of French wines if this prediction is wrong - I predict that in 3 years from now Chrome will have captured 20% of the browser market - that is a big slice!

I have had a prolonged tour through IE8 and I am impressed. Microsoft at last seem to be taking the browser market seriously. IE8 (beta) has more bugs than the Everglades - but once these are sorted I believe that IE8 will be widely approved of by the corporate market. This is a serious piece of software.

So why am I so confident about the chances of Chrome. Well, just take a look under the hood. Chrome brings in a whole new approach to browser design. This approach will almost certainly make the entire concept of "everything online" a much more feasible reality. I like it. This is smart programming.

We live in interesting times.....

T.

[ceemosp]

One of the problems web masters thought was about to happen was "Oh no! Not ANOTHER browser to make may page work with" But the Chrome team made sure this wasn't the case by using the same open source webkit browser renderer that Safari also uses, therefore anything that works in Safari will work in Chrome.
If you view the Google announcment video you will hear the guys speak about this and more. Interesting stuff by the way.

Well, I'll play the ball back to you guys

I can reproduce the same problem when using Safari, so this issue is a tad bigger than just "blaming it on beta"

As Safari is the standard browser for MAC users, this needs some "looking into" imho

regards

[steve.ledger]

I can reproduce the same problem when using Safari

Er yeh... Same webkit rendering engine. Why does this surprise you?

[rafleet]

Unfortunately, the www.opencube.com QuickMenu ($149) doesn't display well either.

What's weird is that instead of not showing a menu, it shows ALL the menu choices from ALL submenus at the same time. Quickmenu is supposed to work with javascript DISABLED, which is one reason I invested in it, as well as WS4.

But, yes, early beta....expect Chrome to exceed expectations when full v.1 hits the market.

I'm sure WS 4 menus will work when we get close to the first full release.

Rich