Layer Inadequacy

[JonH27]

OK, I'm jumping in here too just in case Charles or anyone else at Xara HQ is counting the bulk of responses on this issue. Layer / object management is a significant barrier for some users. I'll admit to using Illustrator for some pieces of work simply because of the control I get over groups, layers and objects. There are times when that fact outweighs the fact that Xara is "easier", quicker and more fluid in most other significant respects.

I'm not a Xara "power user" (hate that term) and am well aware that some of what I seek might already be possible by arcane workarounds (for which I'm eternally grateful for the expertise which you all so readily share on TG) or command sequences. But equally I'm sure that some of it isn't. And it certainly isn't readily accessible and controllable via the gallery. I know that a major part of Xara's charm and useability stem from it's relatively simple interface and certainly don't want it to look as frightening as Illustrator (which always seems to me to look like an aircraft cockpit compared to Xara's car dashboard if you see what I mean) - but surely the galleries are one place where additional functions can safely be made available... if you're not interested in layers and what they can offer, you're not going to be accessing the gallery, are you?

Just my opinion.

Jon

[BONES]

Just out of interest, what do you think Illustrator does better? I struggle with this stuff - I think, by and large, Xara does a brilliant job of handling multiple objects. Your last sentence also intrigues me because the only thing I see that layers has to offer is teh really obvious one of being able to turn off some objects, like crop/registration marks and stuff like that. I don't see that it has much use beyond that because, unlike something like Photoshop, its easy to select objects in the drawing anyway. I just see layers as an annoying distraction and almost never use them.

[MarkMyWords]

As someone who makes drawing with hundreds of objects, layers are invaluable to me and being able to group layers or see the objects in a layer, in the layers gallery would be a tremendous help in organising my work.

Sometimes I have to have several layers for one specific part of a drawing, sometimes I do 'loose' objects in the crowd. I know we can tab through each object, but when dealing with large numbers that can get tedious.

Nothing is more intuitive than being able to see, at a glance, what objects on what layers you need to be working with. Nothing is being asked for here that would get in the way of those who want to keep things working as they do now. You would not have to group layers if you did not want to nor expand them to show what they contain.

[Giovanni]

Count me in for these requests of improvement. To summarize:
- visibility of single object inside layers;
- ability to change transparency (and blending mode?) of layers as a whole;
- grouping and nesting layers.

[BONES]

I'm not sure if either of those comments were in response to my question but they don't tell me anything other than you use layers and find that it complicates your work. Hardly a surprise. You can group objects and apply global transparency/blend modes so I don't see the need for doing it at a layer level also.

[David O'Neil]

...You can group objects and apply global transparency/blend modes so I don't see the need for doing it at a layer level also.

But if your design gets real complicated, it would be nice to be able to make a hierarchical layer structure to organize it--especially if you are prototyping something for a client and you want to make one file that has several different design options.

As an overly simplistic example, say you want to do a landscape. The layers could be just 'Foreground' and 'Sky' if it was simple. But imagine that you wanted to try a couple different options for the sky--maybe a 'space' theme, and a regular clouds theme. In the clouds theme you wanted to try a couple different types of objects for effect. One option could have just birds floating about, another involves angels, and a third has aliens flying down in UFOs. Nested layers would be a great way to approach that if you wanted to keep all of your work for that project in one file. It would also allow you to play with different options more freely.

The above may not be the way you work, but I'd use the heck out of hierarchical layers, and probably in additional ways than imagined above. They would open up new workflow possibilities, and simplify some things I've muttered about in the past.

[Regular]

PSD compatible layers become an issue when imported into Xara Xtreme from other applications as well.

Because Xara uses non-standard layers, the effects desired cannot always be done.

Example: Using a 3D application that can save geometry, lights, channels, shadows, cameras and etc. to separate layers is essential to post production work.

Xara Xtreme cannot even begin to filter out the differences or the layers on this type of file.

The same with applications that use special effects and layers in PSD. If one wants to turn on/off the effect or put a mask on something or perhaps apply an effect and put that in different layers, it becomes a cumbersome, if not impossible task in Xara Xtreme.

With all that said, it's why I keep Photoshop C3 Extended, Illustrator and After Effects handy, as I know Xara cannot do such layered work.

[JonH27]

Just out of interest, what do you think Illustrator does better?

Hi Bones...What Illustrator does better is to present, within the single Layers palette, a summary of all layers, groups, objects, with the ability to tweak layers, groups (including nested groups) and objects. Despite the name, it's not just about "layers". For some types of work, this makes such a difference that, as I said, it can outweigh Xara's advantages. I recall that CorelDraw had a similar Object Manager rollup, maybe still does... If Xara could offer this, I'd possibly never fire up Illy again. OK, it seems that many people don't see the need for this in their work... fair enough. It's not compulsory to use the Layers gallery. Beef it up for those of us that want better capabilities, and the rest of you can leave it closed.

[MarkMyWords]

Actually what I was saying was that layers simplify my work and nested and/or grouped layers would help even more. I don't understand the resistance to this idea, it's not as if using groups or other layer functions would be compulsory.

Perhaps there is a worry such features may slow down Xtreme? If so, then allowing those features to be disabled in options may solve any such problems.

[remi]

I must say, I also don't understand, why you don't see the benefits of layers, Bones.

If you look at the threads about layers, you can clearly see a overwhelming majority of Xara Xtreme users, who are begging for nested layers.

Remi