Taking 3D development to the next level

**behzad** · 05 May 2008, 06:06 PM

Odat I love your avatar, you look so nerdy and fun.

**dogbertbh** · 05 May 2008, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Odat

Bad things start happening when applications try to be all things to all people, what with people being different and all.

On one hand I agree. But I DO believe that Xara can be all things to a guy like me.

I don't use ANY other programs for anything. I don't have photoshop, illustrator or flash. I'm not a professional graphic artist (Nor do I play one on TV) but I do a lot of things for work. Some print, some web, and now even some flash animations. Xara does it all!!!

Every time they add something new - I'm completely happy about it. It's still fast and the upgrades are VERY reasonably priced.

Thanks Xara!

**BONES** · 06 May 2008, 03:17 AM

I don't think you guys really undestand how much more complex 3D is. Why do you think that after years of development, Xara 3D is still so comparatively primitive [no pun intended]. Look at what it cannot do that we take for granted in every other part of Xara. e.g. try applying a gradient to an extrusion or to taper it. What it does now is handy enough for adding a little pizzaz or prototyping ideas but taking it any further in a useful manner is a waste of effort IMHO. Whatever gets added will only set-off an cascade of further requests and if you look at Sketchup, which is $495 if you want to be able to export your work, you might get some idea of the cost of developing this stuff. Then you need to look at how to integrate it into Xar's layout and it gets messier and messier.

**Xhris** · 06 May 2008, 04:16 AM

Heh, I love the way you define it as primitive by stating what it can't do. That line of argument can be used to highlight the inferiority of anything. But, erm, the 3D extrude is 'primitive' because it is version 1 of the tool. It represents merely less than 1 year's work (excluding the fact that most of the engine work was done in X3D), and it was also developed alongside other tools for the release. There was probably one or two people working on it during that short time. It was started after the release of Xara 3.2 and took this long to start because it was not priority, not because it is somehow more difficult or complex than anything else. The purpose of the tool isn't to generate 3D models etc.; it is to generate 3D extrusions (the clue is in the name!) for graphical effects, which it does more slickly and with higher quality results than any comparable software (read: AI or CD). It's obviously going to be improved over time like everything else, but we'll have to wait to see how and how quickly.

Let's have a comic strip:
Person A: Uh, I can't believe Team 1 developed a torch...don't they know how complex radar in general is?
Team 1: ...But we only intended to use it as a local illumination device and not a full distant scanning device...and it works perfectly, just as we intended.
Person A: ...Waste of time. Just look at all the things it can't do...

**DocBambs** · 06 May 2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by behzad

lets not get xara bloated, it was meant for vector graphics but soon it is starting to develop a bulge that is gowning in size.

well said... I vote for no bloating. Maybe Xara could enhance X3D instead to offer what you are after? That program always seems a little 'lite' on features.

**BONES** · 07 May 2008, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Xhris

Heh, I love the way you define it as primitive by stating what it can't do. That line of argument can be used to highlight the inferiority of anything. But, erm, the 3D extrude is 'primitive' because it is version 1 of the tool. It represents merely less than 1 year's work (excluding the fact that most of the engine work was done in X3D), and it was also developed alongside other tools for the release. There was probably one or two people working on it during that short time. It was started after the release of Xara 3.2 and took this long to start because it was not priority, not because it is somehow more difficult or complex than anything else.

Actually, Xara 3D is at version 6 and is very primitive indeed. I imagine that all the work done was simple integration, which I think they've done quite well. But if you want to take it to another level, it will get a lot more complex very quickly. To use 3DS Max as an example, bevel and extrusion is the most basic modifier I can think of, yet it is much more useful than anything in this tool. It is also something that forms a very small part of the overall process.

The purpose of the tool isn't to generate 3D models etc.; it is to generate 3D extrusions (the clue is in the name!) for graphical effects, which it does more slickly and with higher quality results than any comparable software (read: AI or CD).

I agree completely, but we're not talking about what it can do now. This is what the OP asked for - "I would like to see this taken to the next level and turned into a basic (not bloated) 3D editing feature, providing different views for editing and mesh manipulation" - and that is what I was responding to. I work for Autodesk, with a product with a full 3D environment [Toxik]. I used to work with Combustion, which does not have a 3D environment, and never, ever will, despite everyone wanting it to. I work very closely with development and I have some idea of what might be involved, hence my comments. Sorry if it bursts your bubble.

**hamishmacd** · 07 May 2008, 10:23 AM

I wouldn't like to see Xara go mad into 3D and very much doubt if they will. They seem simply to have integrated quite an old product into their suite of tools. And why not? Whilst it’s limited, it does have its uses.

Since the launch of XXP4, I've been taking more of an interest in examples of extrusions that I see around me. It's quite clear that Xara will never be able to compete on the level that you see in big commercial advertising. But, and this is a big but, I have managed to replicate much of what I've seen really very passably and very quickly too.

If I was to make one suggestion for a specific improvement it would be good to be able to extrude grouped objects and have all the elements within the group maintain the colour of their outlines.

Like this

http://www.hamish.plus.com/xara/extrude.jpg

If I was to write a wish list for Xara however, it wouldn't make the top 10.

**Xhris** · 07 May 2008, 03:49 PM

I have a suspicion that the extrude tool will be improved to be more like X3D first of all. In the longer term, given that the competition (AI) can do volumes of revolution etc., Xara may match that with time, as well as expanding the functionality of extruding. I've no idea how 'CAD-like' it will become though eventually. What can be virtually guaranteed is that no matter what is done, it will be done efficiently, slickly, speedily, and so as to generate minimum bloat (i.e. minimally interfere with all current Xara use--which is the correct definition of bloat).