Welcome to TalkGraphics.com
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32
  1. #11

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    So the PDF is correct (i.e. from what you can tell on screen), but printing it to your printer is not correct, is that right?

    So in other words when viewing in Adobe/Acrobat Reader the colour appear dull, rather than bright green? (CMYK colours are always more dull of course).

    By the way you can make the screen look (approximately) like hard copy CMYK colors in Xara just by selecting the Windows -> Show Printer Colors -> Simulate Print Colors.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    39

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    Yes that's right, when CMYK settings are used in PDF export the colours appear very dull when viewed on screen in a PDF (refer my first post) and that's pretty much how they print too.

    However in Xara they look bright green, but when A) printed direct from Xara they are just right, or B) when printed via the PDF printer as a PDF Doc and then Printeed they are right and C) when exported by PDF/X and set to "RGB" they are right. That is A, B and C all look the same on screen (bright green) but result in the same CMYK hard copy (toned down green).

    ...A, B, C produce a colour that is close to the Xara screen with "Simulate Print Colours" switched on as you suggested

    But that is not what PDF/X (or any of the PDF export options; I have tried them all) set to Native or CMYK produces; in that case, the colours aren't recognisable RGB or CMYK (they're muddy green)
    Last edited by Newbietoo; 22 April 2008 at 01:24 PM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    OK, so this is complicated. I wonder if one, slim, possibility is that for some reason your Adobe reader has screwed print profile that's causing it not to print correctly. I don't know enough about Acrobat reader options to know whether you have control over this.

    It could be that, for some weird reason, Acrobat doesn't like your printer, and converts everything to RGB when printing (it's not unknown that Inkjet printer drivers really screw with colours). Perhaps a Google search on Acrobat with Canon Pixma printers.

    But since you say the PDF looks correct, but just doesn't print correct, this really suggests this is as Adobe / Acrobat problem doesn't it?

    When selecting the PDF/X option, we can't and do not include any RGB values at all - (the PDF/X requires only CMYK colours), so again it's difficult to see any circumstance where Xara can affect the colours here.

    Have you tried different ICC colour profiles in the pre-press tab of the export dialog? (it's available when you select CMYK color model, as we use this to convert RGB colors to CMYK ones).

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    39

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    So Charles are you saying that notwithstanding I select "RGB" in PDF/X the
    output is in fact still CMYK? So it is an input setting rather than output? That doesn't seem right somehow given it would know what Xara is sending it?

    There are no adjustments I can find in Acrobat or any other PDF Reader for that matter that mention colour in anything other than a broad context e.g. resolution of JPG's let alone a mention of CMYK or RGB

    I have been Googling PIXMA, CMYK and Acrobat and have come up with a blank so far.

    Unfortunately, I can't go with ICC as the printer has forbade it.

    Anyway, at the end of the day, if it "looks" OK I guess it is eh? And if indeed PDF/X is always CMYK output (pending your confirmation of that) , then I should be OK...a case of "she'll be right mate" as we say here!

    Thanks for your help

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,432

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    It might be worth your while to see what happens in a couple of non-Adobe pdf readers.

    As sledger says, a lot of people prefer FoxIt. When my boss needed a freebie reader because the Adobe product was screwing up, I found that the reader from VeryPDF was the best for his needs.

    One would think that Adobe apps would be the best for handling pdfs. Sometimes they are, but in many, many cases, they aren't. In tests I ran over several years, the Jaws Editor usually did a better job displaying pdfs and often when printing them. My service bureau routinely chose Jaws pdfs over Acrobat when I gave them a choice.

    I haven't compared Jaws Editor 4 and Acro 8 (the current versions) because I'm currently running an Adobe-free machine, and we have no need to upgrade Acro.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    520

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbietoo View Post
    So Charles are you saying that notwithstanding I select "RGB" in PDF/X the
    output is in fact still CMYK?
    I didn't think you could select RGB on PDF-X. I certainly can't in Xtreme 4.

    Surely if you have the Canon printer there you can just print from Xara direct and you've got what you're looking for haven't you?

    If you are preparing the job for a print bureau then you will always have an unknown factor to take into account. What software are they using at their end?

    I have this to consider (I have another CMYK thread running here) and the first and foremost thing is that most print bureau's use Macs, so some kind of conversion likely takes place when they get the file anyway.

  7. #17

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    are you saying that notwithstanding I select "RGB" in PDF/X the
    output is in fact still CMYK?
    Er, you can't select RGB when creating PDF/X files, as Jimi says. The option (on the PDF export dialog) is greyed. In PDF/X all colors, no matter what they start as, are converted to CMYK in the process of creating the PDF/X.

    And also you do not get a choice of ICC colour profile. The PDF/X specification requires that there is one. So you'll see the Pre-Press tab will have selected an ICC profile for you. I suggest you try other ones from that list to see if that makes any difference.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,338

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    If you select anything with a pdf/x then all colors will be converted into cmyk.
    If you select the readers then you remain RGB colors.
    For going to press you need pdf/x

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    39

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Moir View Post
    Er, you can't select RGB when creating PDF/X files, as Jimi says. The option (on the PDF export dialog) is greyed. In PDF/X all colors, no matter what they start as, are converted to CMYK in the process of creating the PDF/X.
    OOPS! My apologies Charles, I should have clarified...I selected the PDF/X option in the first Dialog, then selected "Advanced" and got to the PDF Export Options Dialog. From there I selected Adobe PDF which does make RGB and Native available. I guess I see...yes at that point I am not in PDF/X mode (I got a bit confused as PDF/X was where I had started)...I have played with that may permutations and combinations to try and work out what is happening, I'm confusing myself.

    ...and learning a lot more about PDF, CMYK et al than I ever wanted to know!

    So I guess what I have been doing in Export mode was emulating what I had been doing in "printing" to PDF? If I select CMYK while in Adobe Reader mode the output is the same as PDF/X in CMYK

    Jimi, I'm just using the Canon for a test; the work will be done by a Printer who specified "no ICC" so I guess that means no PDF/X...I hadn't noticed those two things were mutually dependent until Charles' comment.

    Notwithstanding it appears I have created RGB PDF's, how come the printed outcome is an exact match for the CMYK colour chart? This GIF explains what I mean; the on-paper green albeit RGB in this example is a close match for what the XARA CMYK colour actually looks like on paper. The question is, if in XARA the colours are CMYK and they then get exported to PDF (RGB apparently, given the way I've been doing it) and look the same on screen in the PDF as in XARA on screen, are the colours "in" the PDF CMYK or RGB? How can I tell...there's no "Properties" I can see in the PDF that tell me that...and it makes no difference what Reader I use.

    Guys, sorry if I seem thick or am belabouring this, but it's not that obvious to me what is happening here and again many thanks for your help and forebearance
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cmyk comparo.gif 
Views:	822 
Size:	4.2 KB 
ID:	48263  
    Last edited by steve.ledger; 23 April 2008 at 05:02 AM. Reason: fix broken quote

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    520

    Default Re: PDF CMYK Problem

    From personal experience I would suggest the following (bearing in mind what I said earlier about print bureaus and Macs).

    Export the file as a PDF and click the preset option "Commercial Printing", then click "Advanced Options". I double checked the following today with my print shop on a new job I sent over this afternoon. It is however what I had used last time and the results were fine:
    • In the general tab they said select PDF/X-1A 2001.
    • In the objects tab click the box that says "Convert text to Shapes", set the bitmap quality to 100%.
    • In the layers tab click "Include crop marks..."
    • In the Pre-Press tab keep the recommended "U.S. Web Coated SWOP"
    Your printer might tell you different, in which case I suggest you read the options to him over the phone and do as he says.

    I would expect that you'll find that in the case of shapes, lines and text, provided you used CMYK values when you created them you'll probably get what you hoped for, or pretty close.

    With bitmaps, they're likely to turn out slightly different as you are basically converting RGB to CMYK at export and then asking an Adobe piece of software to save it in PC format and then probably open it on a Mac.

    If you have used any transparencies, shadows or gradients it's anyones guess how they might go. Printing out your PDF exported file might give you an idea, but in reality a desktop printer does not accurately reproduce a four colour print process, at least not in my experience it doesn't.

    If in doubt, ask the printer for a chromalin proof or similar before he runs with the whole job, particularly if it's a big run.

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •