t

[athena]

Felix,

Thank you so much for your kind letter above. But more importantly, thank you for coming back to the forum. I had worried that I had been too harsh in my own posting and we, as a group, were in peril of losing your valuable insights (and I do mean that sincerely -- your insights are very helpful [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ).

It finally occurred to me that others also did not know the history of this Painter forum so it seemed appropriate to rein in expectations for the moment.

You are very correct about the Painter 6 tour on the 2nd CD. It is well done. And sometimes, while we're busy trying to learn to use Painter, we sometimes overlook the obvious. (Of course, it was on the 2nd CD so it might not have been that obvious [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

Myself, I kind of miss the slim tutorial book that came with Painter 5 -- that was also very well done, but if you didn't get the benefit of having bought both 5 and 6, and if the .tifs that came with the program are problematic, then I could easily see where a new Painter user (or even someone getting re-acquainted )could feel like they're up a river without a paddle.

I just have a strong bias in favor of books. They (books) have always passed the portability test and you can easily flip from section to section in the blink of an eye (no dependence on processor speed or CD-ROM speed or your monitor's resoultion) (yes, you could interpret that to mean that I don't particularly care for PDFs.)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Getting 'into Painter' is neither obvious nor easy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't have said it better [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] . But your next paragraph has even better food for thought.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> How to start with a scanned image; how to build from imagination with nothing on the Canvas. Textbooks rarely describe 'how-tos' and prefer to devote their often vast number of pages to dealing with interminable menus without ever coming down to the nitty-gritty of cooking recipes. The P6 manual has 543 magic pages but where does it tell you how to start Painting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here, your letter leads me to a related thought. I have observed that

1. Painter attracts two groups.
   <LI>the artists Those who already know how to bring a real canvas to life (those who know how to draw and paint)
   <LI>the students Those who are unfamiliar with drawing with pencil and paper, much less paint and canvas.

What both have in common is the desire to learn to use Painter. By exploring Painter's potential, they explore their own potential.

(I'm not fond of labels but in the interest of discussion I'm going to indulge in using them.)

The way I saw things in my lurking, was that "the artists" would post their works with little or no explanations (or only explanations other "artists" would understand) and leave "the students" clueless as to how to even begin. "The students", feeling as if they were looking in from behind a glass wall, would stay mute.

So hopefully, with the permission of "the artists" of the forum, we can shatter that glass wall that keeps the students mutely admiring "the artists" work. And then the "students" can learn ways to make their own "art".

I think, that because of the nature of Painter, it could be completely topical and appropriate to discuss some of the concepts that "the artists" take for granted.

<ul>Drawing Concepts like
<LI>foreshortening
<LI>shading
<LI>perspective
<LI>contouring
<LI>highlighting
<LI>visual composition
<LI>brush choices (in the real world) for the above -- so we can translate that to brush choices in the digital realm[/list]

The hope here would be that even if an "artist" doesn't want to talk about the program because he or she feels unfamiliar with the program, maybe he or she could share an insight on some of those basics -- To help round out the "students'" vocabulary. This way, the students can use their new vocabulary to critique or praise images posted here. And the students can learn to improve their own works. The "artists" will get something back for their trouble if nothing more than sincere thanks from a "student" that has learned from the sharing of such "basic" information.

(I'll probably start a new thread about the above ideas just to give them a "clean slate")

But you see, Felix, you had another great point here at this part:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My object was/is to initiate a 'topic' on this exploration of Painter's immense vistas - running parallel, to be sure, to the many others dealing with crashes, freezes, failures, coughs and rashes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In its unmoderated state, this forum seemed to gravitate to an inertia of tech support questions. I sense that you also (like I was) were frustrated by the overabundance of tech support questions when there is so much more to Painter. I agree with you. There is so much more to Painter.
(of course if a person can't even get the program to move, then they can't enjoy the varied "vistas" . But you've given quite a bit of geat advice about getting the program going . . . we'll see.)

Hopefully, together we can all act upon the inertia and bring some momentum to the forum. You're right the momentum is picking up.

(Forums focused on tech support issues tend to stay focused on tech support issues until acted upon by another force [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

(I believe I am recalling that law of inertia correctly: Objects at rest tend to stay at rest until acted upon by another force. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon by another force)

I see now that you had intended this topic to be one of those motive forces. I understand. I thank you. Thank you for the keen ideas and the great phrases! Keep 'em coming!

Athena

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


PS re: the edit icon -- glad to be of help [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[This message was edited by T. Athena Hatton on September 18, 2000 at 08:09 AM.]

[This message was edited by T. Athena Hatton on September 18, 2000 at 08:18 AM.]

[Robin Gilmor]

It would be wonderful to see some tutorials in basic drawing technique as it relates to Painter.


I just ordered 2 painter books & to order an Art 101 book will turn me off( just like it did in 8th grade art class)(Which is why I became a musician & not an artist)


I would much rather see for instance:

1-explanation of foreshortening


2-line drawing using it


3-that, enhanced by Painter - maybe a basic way & an advanced way,or 2 different styles,etc.


For me,it would help a lot;I don't want to go back to school,I don't expect to get up to speed,but I would at least like to get started down the right path and get some enjoyment out of this amazing program.

[athena]

Hi there Robin!

Until we get to that information, I would actually suggest Mark Kistler's Draw Squad to anyone who wants to strengthen their confidence in their drawing ability. (I know for certain it is at Amazon -- should be at the other bookstores too -- they say it sells out quickly)

In the Draw Squad, Mark Kistler gives you about 10 keywords of drawing. While he does have a website at www.draw3d.com (which has some free lessons), I think that the Draw Squad book is very well focused. And it also has plenty of very clear exercises (few people, if any, would call them boring) to help you really get a grasp of each of the 10 keywords of drawing.

(I know, you said an Art 101 book would turn you off. This is just a fun "learning the basics of drawing" book. Amazon even has an excerpt from the intro of the book so you can get a better feel for Mark Kistler's style of writing and teaching.)

Athena