Xtreme Pro 4 way too big!

[Dón|Olivierè]

But when you and I first started working with Xara, a 100 MB hard drive was a luxury. Now you can get 4GB flash memory on a removable USB stick for $25 US. Storage is cheap. Why not use it?

It is not a question of cheap storage space! Your answer, gwpriester, comply the level of this board and its software, sorry pal. Because harddrives getting cheaper, there is not necessity to fill them with poor written software.

I cannot understand why it is not possible to write good working software finaly? We use computers for nearly 30 years on this planet, we fly to the moon and build up an international space-station out there, but working with computers is always a pain in the ass! Why we cannot get well written software, bugfree with high usability? I really hate to handle lots of bugs with every upgrade. Xtreme like other software on this planet getting worse with every new release.

Tell me guys why does Xtreme needs many thousands of registry entries, while Maxons Cinema 4D for example needs one or two and that software is by far more efficient than Xtreme? After installation of Xtreme your computer is not the same anymore. I better do not want to see Xtreme's source-code - it is surely a nightmare!

I wish I could articulate all the anger I feel inside, but english is not my native language.

It is really, really sad, that there is no good working vector-graphics-software out there! As I came to Xtreme a couple of years ago, I liked it small size and its speed. But now it is bigger than Adobe's Illustrator 10, which I use on my machine, and its speed is gone long ago.

As soon I find an alternative software I will switch and never come back to Xtreme.

I give the Xtreme developers some advices: Do NOT put more and more so called features in your software, because some amateurs demand them! Instead get rid of all the bugs, make your code better and develop a userfriendly Interface.

[ankhor]

I give the Xtreme developers some advices: Do NOT put more and more so called features in your software, because some amateurs demand them! Instead get rid of all the bugs, make your code better and develop a userfriendly Interface.

Hmm our money is different from your money in what way?

[willdean]

Hmm our money is different from your money in what way?

I'm not in the 'anti-amateur' camp at all but there are significant differences in the *amount* of money people spend on hobby software and the amount they're prepared to spend in business. I agree it's the same kind of money, but the size of the pile does differ.

Nobody running any kind of credible business in Western Europe or the USA would even pause to think about spending a couple of hundred dollars on a decent bit of software (except possibly to wonder if its low price was a bad sign). I don't think everyone on this forum can spend their own money like that, though.

All the sane people around here are aware that Xara's progress is terribly constrained by resources (developers/money). I suppose some of us in the "would buy a hundred dollar upgrade just get the basic drawing improved" camp feel a bit sad that we've been passed over in the allocation of these scares resources in favour of the "would like to try an different panorama program to the one which came for free with my camera" camp.

Of course, if there are twenty times as many 10 dollar hobbyists as there are 100 dollar commercial users, then Xara know exactly what they're doing. That's entirely plausible...

[pauland]

Of course, if there are twenty times as many 10 dollar hobbyists as there are 100 dollar commercial users, then Xara know exactly what they're doing. That's entirely plausible...

Apart from everyone paying more than the 10 dollars, I actually think that's the situation. Naturally, I don't actually know..

[jens g.r. benthien]

As sad as it is, only Gary understood what I meant. What's wrong with an installer that'll give the users a choice of the installed components?

I really give a damn on what you think about the code or if the storage space is just a cent or less per MB - all I want is to be able to have it MY WAY.

I guess none of you superheroes would accept glibbery kidneys as a breakfast in a 5 star hotel - you want a CHOICE, and you certainly wouldn't debate with the cook an how to prepare kidneys.

Nobody likes being forced to do what he doesn't like, not even you.

Got the idea now?

[pauland]

Jens, most, if not all of us understood what you meant. It's not as easy to do as you might imagine and I'm pleased Xara haven't wasted their time on it.

Yes, we get the idea. As the stones would say "you can't always get what you want". I'd move to another hotel, but then again I don't frequent five star hotels, nor are Xara charging five star prices for their software.

There are several features I'd like in Xtreme, several features they've put in that I'm not bothered about. I'll live with it because it's the best at what it does even if it's not as good as it could be. When something else comes along that's better and I can afford it, I'll go with that.

BTW I'm not upset about html generation, picture editing or 3D extrusion despite having a raft of Adobe CS3 software that does those things, plus a dedicated 3D modeller.

For some reason I use Xtreme rather than Adobe Illustrator. I wonder why?

Paul

[steve.ledger]

Jens - fair enough, and we got it honest.
But well, you've posted on a public forum and looks like you've opened a can of worms

Discussion is free and provided no-one get's way out of line and starts abusing others, I think it should continue as it is, but with a little more tolerance and objectivity from everyone agreed?

[willdean]

What's wrong with an installer that'll give the users a choice of the installed components?

What's wrong with it is it has a cost - it costs money to develop and it costs money to support. Every time Xara spend time and money on one feature they're not spending it on another.

Every on/off option you provide in the installer DOUBLES the number of different configurations people have. The application would also have to cope with funtionality which might or might not be present.

You might think that such costs are trivial, but supporting software is fantastically expensive, and one way to try and control this cost is to keep all your users' installations as similar to each other as possible.

Engineering is all about trade-offs, and however much you wish things to be different, I seriously doubt you're going to persuade anyone that trading a cent's worth of your customers' disk-space against even a single support incident is worthwhile.

[BONES]

As sad as it is, only Gary understood what I meant. What's wrong with an installer that'll give the users a choice of the installed components?

Because it might mean some other new feature doesn't get done. You think its trivial but there is no way to know as installers are often tied to licensing systems, which will be different for 32-bit and 64-bit, etc, etc. I understand your point completely, I just wouldn't consider it worth starting a thread about, let alone devoting very precious resources to implementing.

I really give a damn on what you think about the code or if the storage space is just a cent or less per MB - all I want is to be able to have it MY WAY.

And you do. You have Xara when you could have chosen any one of dozens of other applications instead. You installed it exactly where you wanted it installed [if you bother with stuff like that] and, as a percentage of you overall storage capacity, I imagine it takes up far less room than the first version you ever installed. In effect, Xara already takes up far less space than it once did, yet you want to be able to configure it in ways you were not able to previously.

I think there are far more pressing issues around installation. I still have to go through and re-do all of my preferences every time we get an update. I used to complain about it here but nobody else seemed to mind so I never pushed it. Now I just do it and don't let it get to me, but I still see it as a more pressing issue than an insignificantly small amount of potentially useful extra data that I might never use being copied to my HDD during installation.

[ankhor]

I'm not in the 'anti-amateur' camp at all but there are significant differences in the *amount* of money people spend on hobby software and the amount they're prepared to spend in business. I agree it's the same kind of money, but the size of the pile does differ.

Depends on how many amateur users you have.
I am an amateur and I spend the same amount as you do because
I also bought the PRO version, because of the extra possibilities.
And yes, expenses for your business are tax deductable and you can bill
them to your customers, eventually.

But I can understand you as a businessman want a pure business version.
But some other (small) businesses find the extra stuff usefull?

Nobody running any kind of credible business in Western Europe or the USA would even pause to think about spending a couple of hundred dollars on a decent bit of software (except possibly to wonder if its low price was a bad sign). I don't think everyone on this forum can spend their own money like that, though.

All the sane people around here are aware that Xara's progress is terribly constrained by resources (developers/money). I suppose some of us in the "would buy a hundred dollar upgrade just get the basic drawing improved" camp feel a bit sad that we've been passed over in the allocation of these scares resources in favour of the "would like to try an different panorama program to the one which came for free with my camera" camp.

Of course, if there are twenty times as many 10 dollar hobbyists as there are 100 dollar commercial users, then Xara know exactly what they're doing. That's entirely plausible...

I don`t know what they are aiming for, I know Magix, and they aim
the 'amateurs' and professionals too. Just depends on the package you buy.
And if I had more money I would buy more software, but I don`t, so I stick to Xtreme, affordable with a lot of features.
You might have the money to diversify in your software, but I need bang for my buck .(Untill I win the lottery ofcourse )