the debian xaralx-svg plugin

[geminiguy]

OK, fair enough... my apologies for mis-understanding.. now, back to the business.
I am almost certain the Deb. files are the same and they mention the importing of svg, which yes we have always had....
Stu, I believe they are the same filters used throughout the community. The import works fine (but only via drag n drop for me and may others) but the output is useless.
I have even gone as far as copying every single svg filter and file from inkscape and W3 and trying to incorporate them into xaralx... to no avail ....
I have yet to have success with your scribus conversion method, although admit I only gave one half-hearted attempt so far.
I think the biggest point here is.... they are both completely separate softwares, which run on completely different formats... and both are as equally useful and powerful.
I feel that sometimes .svg is too heavily over-rated within the Linux community and too many deem anything but .svg to be useless garbage?
The problem for further development for xaralx, is first finding a dev or two who are not so "hung-up" on the subject of which engine to use and the "open-source" argument.
Second.... is that those devs need to be fairly compensated for their work... even if it means simply donating to their desired cause.
Thirdly, we need people like ourselves, and Dai, and Remi, etc..... who would love to see this project take flight again, who are willing to get involved and "assist" the devs, as opposed to the countless number of people who have done nothing but whine about what doesn't work with every revision they put out.

Charles gave us as much as could be asked..... and actually all that we need. But this was not good enough for many.. and I think much of the arguing which ensued in my opinion, only showed the Linux side to be spoiled, ungrateful babies.
I mean... here is a man, who has one of the most powerful vector programs going... and it's a goldmine.... and he literally "gave" everything but the engine away, for free... unselfishly.
As far as I'm concerned.... Linux wants the engine?? Fine.... cough up the dough to port it, and then cough up the $89.00 & up per copy respectively to version, just like everyone else does.... Why on Earth should he just give it over to Linux users for free when everyone else has to pay?? Think about it... That is what these Linux people working with xara wanted and expected??
Too many people clearly misunderstand and misuse the term "open-source"

It's all up to users like us to handle it from here.... There is no blame to bestow upon Xara.... it was on "us". We were given a free Ferrari with no engine and whined about it
I'm going to do what ever I can, when the right time comes (as I am busy with a few things right now)... and I'll do it alone if I have to (finding a dev that is). But, if I hear one more person say thay understand where the Linux devs were coming from... I think I'm gonna throw up.
I love Linux... but not always sided with the militant views of some. I see many great softwares for linux which are not very popular (like Maya) because..... "Oh my God... you expect me to PAY for it??!!"
More software companies would be willing to port to Linux..... if only everyone didn't expect to get it for free.
I those companies stood to make a fair profit from porting.... they would do it in a heartbeat

I'd love to get together more n more on this Stu, I am not by any means very technically gifted... but I know what I want, and I'm willing to do what needs to be done to get it....... I really think if enough of us can pull together, and find the right people... this can happen, but until then... we should just enjoy what we have. Which is basically, a $90.00 software program for free

[stuseven]

geminiguy - right... I have seen your comments on SVG here...
seems this is a big interest of your's and mine, and many others.

In your reply, you did comment: "I have yet to have success with your scribus conversion method, although admit I only gave one half-hearted attempt so far."

On that point... there is really nothing to it, but, you need to burn a copy
of the teenpup-2008 to do this with.

You know a lot of interesting history regarding [Xara for Linux] development !

So far as the entire SVG "problem"... I really feel it is largely a waste of time to debate why SVG support isnt better in the Linux version of Xara.
Xara has, already, done a great job of incorporating SVG completely into
their commercial release... so... all the work is done. What we're left with is more the issue... which you also discuss... of further developing xaralx. Porting the supposed free code over to Linux. I am not a code porter over
to linux person. This is really where we should be looking... advertising
for capable code porters.

Regarding your comments on funding continued xaralx development... this
isnt going to happen, linuxwise. If a program isnt going to be freely distributed, and developed by volunteers, it isnt really going to be a Linux program at all.
While there would likely be lots of people willing to pay for a commercialized linux compatible xara derivative, it wouldnt be feasible, when Inkscape and other programs provide virtually the same functionality for free.

The engine issue is another non-issue in my book. It simply is free to use.
No other engine is needed, except to make xaralx fit some purist dream.
Realistically, if we're going to use xaralx, we should also recognize where it came from.

[con]

I dont want to start a flamewar here or anything but, I dont think "spoiled, ungrateful babies" is the correct term here... I'll admit there were some real idiots posting on the mailing list, but every xaralx user isnt like that all. Learning to use linux takes more time than what a "spoiled baby" is ready to spend on learning something. And also the "spoiled baby" doesnt want anything for free cause he/she thinks if it isnt expensive it aint good, but its the parents that pay for it.

Most of the ppl who complain want "just works" and are willing to pay for it. But the fact that there isnt anything to pay for makes them look like trolls. Does Xara except donations?

Maya is professional-grade software with a price tag at about $2000. Thats more than what most amateurs are willing to spend on software (or can afford for that matter). That free (gratis) 3d software, that I cant remember the name of, starts looking like a good alternative if youre not serious about 3d stuff.

Oh and yes, why is it that whenever a linux user has negative views on something, most of the time they're tagged as the "spoiled-brat-wants-everything-for-free" guy/gal?

One more thing.. geminiguy, I was quite sure you were like this 18 year old kid. Imagine my surprise when I visited your picasa www-page. OMG youre 8 yrs older than I am, I thought I was like the oldest dude here or atleast close to! What I'm going for here is that internet forums/mailinglist/whatev dont really pass on what one person is trying to say or what the feelings behind a post are. One could think they were being very sincere and nice when writing but someone else will maybe read them as being insulting. A little like the first posts in this thread...

[geminiguy]

hehe... What on Earth, would even make you think I was 18 years old.... (I wish) and then, if I'm 8 years older than you, what made you think you were one of the oldest people on these forums?
In any case... no, I know that not "all" Linux users are like this. What I was referring to, was the controversy which erupted during the project, which I'm sure Charles is extremely weary reading about...

Xara's engine was not part of the deal. Why would it be? It's the heart and soul which makes Xara... Xara... it is also Xara's money-maker... and everyone would love to get their hands on it, and put Xara out of business....
Everything else was on the table, and finances were routed into the project...

When the Linux people found out they were not getting the CDraw engine... is when everything began to come apart... Finally, it was decided that Cairo would work the best, and development was under way again...
But then the CDraw issue arose again... this time with some real extremists jumping on the band wagon, getting everyone all worked up.
And, when they realized that Xara was not going to give in and hand over the crowned jewels..... they quit?? Many also went on to accuse Charles of being unreasonable, unfair, etc.... (ya, the guy who literally handed over his entire life... without the guts, basically) as well as pumped a vast amount of money into the project
He basically "gave" Linux his $80.00 software for free.... and was bad-mouthed for it? I don't know how mature that is? And the project, the Linux end users, and even Xara... have suffered for it.
And, it continues because there are many out there who will bad mouth Xara LX at any moment they can based on that very topic

This problem with Xara LX not having useful .svg support, is not a "Xara" issue. It's an issue of developers not wanting anything to do with it, and redesigning the .svg filters to work with Xara LX.... all because Xara would not just hand over their beef, along with the bread and butter.
The .svg filters are from W3C... the same as used in inkscape.... but they have not been worked to play nice with Xara LX yet.... We don't even know if they can? There is also more needed than just these two simple filters to produce what we want. Those two.. are just the base.

Blender uses the import and other .svg filters from W3C too... But those filters were modyfied to work within these programs. Hence, why we have "normal .svg" and "inkscape .svg"
That "import.svg filter" does it's job fine.... "export" does not... because we don't have any of the filters which perform their jobs in between the import and export

And... I fully agree.... Maya was not the best choice as an example

[geminiguy]

I just wanted to add... I love Linux, and the Linux community. I just do not, and will not back up the type of extremism bought about by activists and their one sided view of what Linux "is" or "should be"
Linus Torvalds doesn't even get as upset as these types do over any of these very such matters.... It is nothing more than radicals who place a perverted twist on anything they get involved with. And their propaganda causes much controversy where there really isn't a cause for it.
Linux, bares it's own little version of a civil war this way... and it's really quite sad.

[geminiguy]

Sorry for this triple post mods (Bill)

I just also want to make all aware... the export filter?? It actually works just as it is supposed to... as I said, we are just missing all the pieces (filters) between import and export....
I have actually just sent off an email to Carl Worth to ask if he could speak with me about what other tools would be good to start with.
I know he is a very busy man, and I may never hear from him, but this is the best place I can think of to begin

Once we have a solid list, of all the filters and libraires needed... then we need someone to beat the crap out of them to get them to work with Xara LX

[handrawn]

its a good point Paul - its a shame its the way it is