Moderator decisions & Attractivity of TalkGraphics

[Egg Bramhill]

Alien, I'm never sure threads like this achieve what they set out to do. We have no constitution, just a rough set of posting rules.

You state that this forum is the most strictly ruled of all the forums you visit. I can't argue with that, but is it a bad point? Moderators remove Spam and Flaming possibly before it's ever seen by members. Spam does become a constant irritation and in many forums has meant the introduction of these terrible "Please replicate the text on the right" requests on every posting (Can't remember the term for them). So far due to our worldwide moderation this hasn't become a necessity.


Normally threads are locked because they tend towards flaming. They are very rarely locked for being off-topic. A simple "Please remain on topic" post suffices. I doubt if 0.5% of threads within this forum are commented on, let alone locked. Also please rest assured that the moderators do communicate via PM's to discuss / decide on a course of action and therefore it's rarely one moderators decision.

[remi]

The comments are very valuable so far. Thank you for that.

I would say in some cases we (the moderators) are very consistent, in other cases more tolerant with the enforcement of the forum rules. It depends on the case:

We immediately

• delete Spam and
• close Requests for freebies

We try to solve all other problems with comments in the involved thread or with PM's.

As Egg said, we discuss questionable threads in the background (we have a private forum and also use PM's).

I see it the same way, that it's a great pity if threads are closed. And it is true that this is unfair to the users, which are not involved in Off-Topic or flaming discussions. On the other hand it's sometimes necessary to close threads which are out of control.

Unfortunately, it's a well-known phenomenon that one will find much more extreme statements in Internet forums than in normal conversations. It has to do with the reduced inhibition threshold in (nearly) anonymous internet forums.

Another interesting phenomenon in forums is, that comments from other members are much more frequently misinterpreted. Often it depends on the current mood how we (the members) see a text. If we are frantically busy or if we're angry, one is more inclined to interpret negativity in the comments. But if we are in balance or lighthearted, we see the comments in a more positive light.

I agree with what has been said about more tolerance.

On second thoughts I would also like to see a short comment, whenever a thread is closed. But I'm not sure whether it's always possible to post a warning, before a thread is closed. But you must consider, that this is my personal view. Maybe we (the moderators) need to discuss this further.

Remi

[Ross Macintosh]

I'd like to add a note about the moderators and where they come from. Really just a FYI for anyone who might have wondered.

The moderator team are all members of the forum community interested more in interaction with other members than 'administration'. None of us want to be Police or 'enforcers'. We were asked to be moderators mostly because we were already hanging out at the forums lots. Another factor is by being somewhat distributed in different parts of the world we have a better chance of some moderator being online at anytime of the day. When a moderator has said they are unable to participate due to work, family, or whatever we have tended to replace them by asking someone else to help out. Generally there are far more potential candidates than are needed to fill any openings in the moderator crew.

Regards, Ross

[The Alien]

Hi Egg,

I agree with you that the mods prevent flame wars and fight spam (personally I haven't noticed a spam post for weeks to months). I think you're very efficient at doing this and it's not a bad point at all.
My point is that in doing so, other users can't continue their discussion because their thread was closed in the process. This is what I find inefficient. It's like using a rocket to kill an ant, if you will
BTW, I was typing things fast and by "off-topic" I also meant flame wars, spam and everything else that's not relevant to the thread/forum.

IMO, one of the few reasons to close threads should be if the thread starter was starting an irrelevant discussion (e.g. a spammer or a troll). If the thread's topic is initially on-topic and it derails, it should only be closed if it continues to be abused after deletions of OT posts (spam/flaming/other nonsense OT stuff) and warnings to abusive users. Otherwise we're losing a perfectly good discussion that was messed up by a few rogue users.

To sum up my point: I think that mods do a good job at keeping this place clean, but that in this process, they "damage" efforts of the community to hold a relevant discussion. These actions can be seen by some users as destructive and have a bad effect on the attractivity of this forum.

[zaphodeist]

If the thread's topic is initially on-topic and it derails, it should only be closed if it continues to be abused ...

I think that's the pertinent point. TG is a comfortable place because of the contributors and the moderators do a good job, in my opinion, by doing just that - moderating rather than policing. TG is not a confrontational forum: alongside the helpful and purely instructional threads, there are threads where disagreements occur and it can get passionate, which is good - often instructive when relative merits of programs are the topic for instance - as long as there's no personal abuse, and one idiot poster should not mean the loss of that thread.

I also agree with Remi about misunderstandings. I used to dislike emoticons but find myself using them a lot now because I'm aware my sense of humour may not translate well in blank text

[Judi A]

I totally agree with Paul's comment.

I'll just completely disagree with Availor. I don't want fewer forums just to have more traffic per forum, I like the forums to have a subject/theme of some sort.

I have never gone looking at individual forums for traffic, my visits almost always start with looking at 'New Posts'.

Please keep things as they are!

Paul

P.S. I think since the "Off Topic's" forum started it's proved to be a friendly place to ask questions that are non-graphic related.

[alanstancliff]

Basically, we posters are guests in Xara's abode. The forum moderators welcome us in and hold the microphone. There are certain standards of behavior that are expected.

I think that the forum participants are friendly and helpful. They also kid around a bit, and occasionally, someone may take something personally that's not meant to be offensive. Sometimes, a guest arrives at the party and acts a bit inappropriately, and a moderator will take him aside and say, "now see here, laddy. We're happy to have you here but we expect you to behave."

If you attend a family Christmas gathering at your uncle's house, and he finds you in a darkened side room with some other people he barely knows and you're sharing a joint, he may ask you to leave and lock the room so other guests don't go there.

If the ambiance does not suit, it is best to go elsewhere. If Bob's-Your-Uncle has house rules you don't feel comfortable with, you should make other Christmas arrangements.

I, for one, enjoy myself here, learn a lot, participate a little, and have enjoyed a bit of good-natured ribbing over the several years I have been a guest here. However, YMMV (your mileage may vary).



Regards,

Alan

[BONES]

Until a week or so ago I wouldn't have had an opinion on this topic but what happened with this thread - http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=31645 - was inappropriate, heavy-handed and probably put a new user off for life. By the time it was closed, the heat had gone out of the argument and discussion was civil and constructive. Mind you, at no time did I feel that anyone got beyond frustrated in their posts - there was no name calling or abuse, as far as I recall.
The guy who started it had issues and when I tried to start another thread, in the hope of actually helping this guy get past his problems, and to sort some other things our in my head, that was quickly locked as well, ostensibly because I used the expression "potentially obnoxious" to describe the originator of the closed thread. If saying that someone's behaviour might possibly be seen by others as "obnoxious", i.e. a factual observation, is cause to close a thread, I think this place has severe moderation problems.
Worse still, and this is a general observation of internet forums, is that moderators are incapable of making a bad decision, despite any amount of evidence that they have done so. It is pathetic and demonstrates to me a lack of confidence in their ability, in the way criticism is stifled. If you think you've made a good decision, you should welcome the opportunity to discuss it openly. i.e. To have the courage of your convictions. Moreover, the ability to be swayed by reasonable argument and admit a mistake.
I spend very little time here because I find these forums very stale and lightweight. I come here with specific questions, when they arise, but I don't find this the kind of place that is likely to teach me anything really worthwhile because its all too fluffy and nice. No-one pushes any boundaries or really challenges anything, its all too antiseptic. A little bit of chaos makes for the enticing possibility that something good and fresh may emerge at some point. This place doesn't really do any of that.

[pauland]

Until a week or so ago I wouldn't have had an opinion on this topic but what happened with this thread - http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=31645 - was inappropriate, heavy-handed and probably put a new user off for life.

I've looked though the thread. Heavy-handed to close it down? I would probably agree, but we're all human.

No-one pushes any boundaries or really challenges anything, its all too antiseptic. A little bit of chaos makes for the enticing possibility that something good and fresh may emerge at some point. This place doesn't really do any of that.

I think that the reasons why you find TG a bit stifling are the same reasons why so many of us enjoy it. While there are many forums more reminiscent of a free for all, there are few places like TG where everyone gets respect and excesses and bad language are frowned upon.

I like it that way.

Paul

[handrawn]

I like it the way it is.

Open a third thread Bones [as was suggested] - there's no rule against it

The real discussion can go on - its as easy as that