Something for USA Independence Day

**sallybode** · 05 July 2007, 08:23 PM

The is a CorelDRAW forum, since when are you a CorelDRAW user, Remi?

**remi** · 05 July 2007, 08:35 PM

Hi Sally,

Originally Posted by sallybode

The is a CorelDRAW forum, since when are you a CorelDRAW user, Remi?

I'm not sure, since 1992/93 or so. I started with the good old ATARI ST and the DTP software "Calamus". But Corel Draw was my first DTP solution on a Windows PC. In the year 1995 I found CorelXARA, the former version of Xara Xtreme and since then I prefer to use Xara Xtreme most of the time.

Regards,
Remi

**sallybode** · 06 July 2007, 12:47 AM

There are more people for the moment who are earning a living with that which is real enough today for the present market, though Xara has potential, real life means spot color, vinyl cutting, sublimation, proper output to .pdf and a way to pull it all together. Yes, there are wonderful things which Xara does, DRAW also, the world is not all just one thing.

In the meanwhile to help people who need help is what this section of the forum is about. Not a simpering "Gee, I was so smart that years ago I gave up on DRAW...." excuse me, you don't know what you are talking about. Some 40% of industry which is going to use software to do what DRAW can do is using DRAW in one regard or another. Perhaps you gave up on DRAW as it too too much to figure it out. AutoCAD is difficult, but it was fun to master. Why have five programs to do what one can do? I have a family to spend money on too and I know you do too. And no I didn't buy AutoCAD, but DRAW has plenty of features which encorporates that to keep me happy. Before learning CorelDRAW I became equally skilled at Illustrator, so if now I recommend DRAW, I have enough experience to say so.

Remi, if some don't share your self hatred of western culture, hatred was put down in WWII wasn't it, or should we all appologize for breathing? If facsims rises in another disguise?

Everything Americans has done isn't bad, you just choose to ignore them. When the great Tsunami struck south east Asia, predominantly Muslim, they were human beings, the U.S., despite being already on the other side of 911, we sent Marines in to clean up, to help pick up yes, the dead bodies, build shelters, schools, roads. Germany never would have known as I don't think they sent anyone to help whatsoever, Britian did, Australia did, so did Japan. Who helped American when New Orleans flooded? Americans help everyone, again we helped even other Americans.

Perhaps Americans are proud of their country because they have a reason to be.

**jamesmc** · 06 July 2007, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by remi

I wonder, if it's possible to start a dialogue between proud American Mothers and proud Mothers in Irak, Afghanistan or Iran over the Internet?

Remi ...

Really... I detect some snideness.

**remi** · 06 July 2007, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by sallybode

There are more people for the moment who are earning a living with that which is real enough today for the present market, though Xara has potential, real life means spot color, vinyl cutting, sublimation, proper output to .pdf and a way to pull it all together. Yes, there are wonderful things which Xara does, DRAW also, the world is not all just one thing.

In the meanwhile to help people who need help is what this section of the forum is about. Not a simpering "Gee, I was so smart that years ago I gave up on DRAW...." excuse me, you don't know what you are talking about. Some 40% of industry which is going to use software to do what DRAW can do is using DRAW in one regard or another. Perhaps you gave up on DRAW as it too too much to figure it out. AutoCAD is difficult, but it was fun to master. Why have five programs to do what one can do? I have a family to spend money on too and I know you do too. And no I didn't buy AutoCAD, but DRAW has plenty of features which encorporates that to keep me happy. Before learning CorelDRAW I became equally skilled at Illustrator, so if now I recommend DRAW, I have enough experience to say so.

Remi, if some don't share your self hatred of western culture, hatred was put down in WWII wasn't it, or should we all appologize for breathing? If facsims rises in another disguise?

Everything Americans has done isn't bad, you just choose to ignore them. When the great Tsunami struck south east Asia, predominantly Muslim, they were human beings, the U.S., despite being already on the other side of 911, we sent Marines in to clean up, to help pick up yes, the dead bodies, build shelters, schools, roads. Germany never would have known as I don't think they sent anyone to help whatsoever, Britian did, Australia did, so did Japan. Who helped American when New Orleans flooded? Americans help everyone, again we helped even other Americans.

Perhaps Americans are proud of their country because they have a reason to be.

Hi Sally,

all this proud stuff is the wrong way of thinking. Look at this thread. I've asked a short question. A question which should make you thoughtful.

Instead, your reaction is a post with things you said about me, which are so wrong and have nothing to do with me. This is more the typical reaction of George Bush and his friends in the Oil Industry: If you're not with me, you're against me. That's not the right way.

With all your proud about CorelDRAW and your country you has said and thought wrong things about me. And believe me, in the end it really doesn't matter about which TalkGraphics member or which country you are talking about.

My question was "I wonder, if it's possible to start a dialogue between proud American Mothers and proud Mothers in Irak, Afghanistan or Iran over the Internet?".
The answer could be that it is not possible, as long as pride is stronger than the insight. Another answer could be: "Yes, it must be possible and perhaps the mothers talk to their sons about the other mothers and their sons in this other country and in the end they know each other more and understand and respect each other." Sounds foolish? I'm sure, 30-50 years later such conversations will take place. It's the same like in all the other preceding conflicts. I'm further in faint hope, that somebody is able to stop all this hate and lack of understanding between different cultures.

Remi

**Aunt Betsy** · 06 July 2007, 02:55 AM

Remi,

When I started this tread I titled it “Something for USA Independence Day”. I am aware that there are people on this forum from many different countries so I made sure that I identified what the graphic was related to with sensitivity to the global nature of the members. If someone from another country cares to share graphics related to their national holidays, I would hope I would have enough good manners not to take political pot shots at them and make them feel unwelcome to share their graphics. Your question was completely out of line.

**handrawn** · 06 July 2007, 09:02 AM

Asking questions designed to make people think is dangerous Remi.
But I am sure you know that.

And you provoked the usual tirade of unwarranted personal abuse that follows such questions. If anything that is what is out of order here.

So sad. No wonder there is so much trouble in the world

**remi** · 06 July 2007, 01:07 PM

Aunt Betsy, my intention was not to make you feel unwelcome. As you know, we Germans has learned our lesson about national pride since the criminal nazi regime 60 years ago. I know, that there was no such learning process in other countries of the world. I have a bad feeling, whenever I hear about such things like national pride, because I know, that such pride exists on both sides - the good and the bad side and no side is right. National pride together with religious motives is the worst combination, as we can see with the worldwide terrorism.

Steve, you're right that's dangerous to ask such questions. Such questions confront somebody with the complexity of the real world and are uncomfortable. But in the end, they starts a thought process and therefore they are sometimes necessary.

Peace
Remi

**jamesmc** · 06 July 2007, 02:36 PM

Remi,

There is a huge difference between the kind of National Pride where people blindly follow leaders and Patriotism where people have the freedom to follow or not.

Patriotism in the U.S. is a choice and is supported by the basic freedoms as outlined in our Constitution.

National Pride like that which existed in the old Nazi government was first presented under disguise, then rammed down the German people's throat. If you didn't agree, you were immediately executed or sent to death camps.

There isn't anything remotely like that in the U.S. nor has there ever been.

The last time we had a big fuss about what is right and wrong, there was a Civil War. The right side won in that bloody contest.

I spent eight years in Germany during the Cold War era. Lot of today's German youth forget the sacrifices of the U.S. and its allies to help Germany remake itself. Today Germany is no longer divided into East and West and celebrates their freedom to choose daily.

Making comments about a candy cane looking design to celebrate the American Independence Day and inferring it is somehow along the line as the Nazi national pride, is way beyond reasonable thinking.

Do yourself a favor Remi, drive to Luxembourg and visit the cemetery there where there are thousands of dead soldiers who gave up their lives so that you may live in a free Germany, one that is full of Democratic Freedoms and choice.

Most likely this topic will get locked and my comments removed, but someone has to say it.

**remi** · 06 July 2007, 03:18 PM

Hi James,

I'm sure, you know, that I'm not trying to compare American's with Nazi's 60 years ago. I wouldn't do such things. If you don't know that, you now know it. And no, I'm not such kind of young people who don't know, what great things the American's did for us Germans. I know it and I'm thankful.

It's disconcerting, how some of your reactions are, if somebody say something against your patriotism. (It seems patriotism is the better word, than national pride.)

Regards,
Remi