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  1. #21
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    Isnt that Great?
    No, I would prefer to be the owner of Coca Cola and get some millions (billions?) from another company, which would like to buy my company and not, that the whole world could use my (hard) work and make money with it (for nothing).

    Remi
    IP

  2. #22

    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    lol....i like this discussion...actually I was the owner of a bakery for 10 years and we used give our recepies to our customers all the time, and guess what the company is still in business makin as much money if not more as when I was there. And no one, not single person managed bake anything that looked or tasted anything like our products. So dont worry, you will still get your billions.
    IP

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    So dont worry, you will still get your billions.
    I hope so.

    Regards,
    Remi
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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    Varna, Bulgaria
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    725

    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Just to include in discusion.... but for me here has some contradiction....

    You like programmer make some free for me software
    I like designer use your software and make my own product ie design which I cell for some money to third persons ie clients...

    After some time line you still be there creating some free software for somebody
    I will have my money

    It is not fully fear I think

    For that my opinion is that if no body didnt pay for creation of software in some time programmer will stop to work, becouse in our world money are motive power.
    And for that by my opinion linux didnt rise so fast, he still is in some startup position, and almost havent PRO grafics software for him
    [A]bort? [R]etry? or [S]elf distruct

    minimiro.com
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  5. #25
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Yes, a lot of the current open source reality is more unfair, than fair from the view of the developers (that's the reason, why I ask for the ethics beyond open source).

    Rich Green, Sun's executive vice president of software said on the 2007 JavaOne conference in San Francisco: "A lot of people are creating innovation that other organizations are benefiting from. I think this is unfair and unsustainable. It's Robin Hood backwards. We are stealing from the poor and making other people rich, and this seems very bad. Humans will not do this, nor should they have to. We have to look closely at working with those who contribute to the open source but whose contributions generate revenue for Sun and share that wealth. I'm sure we are going to do that." ([1])

    Remi
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Anyone who uses OSS to make a living has to ask him/herself "how much is this software worth to me?". Alot of ppl and companies make monetary contributions to OSS projects.

    Anyone who works on a OSS project has to ask him/herself "can I afford not to get paid?". No one is getting tricked into working for free, dont speak for them. If you feel anyone who is developing OSS being treated unfair, send them money!

    When OSS devs feel they are being treated unfair they stop writing the software, its quite simple. People working on OSS are for the most regular ppl like you and me with jobs and families or they are students or whatever. They decided on their own to start a project or help on a excisting one, they work on it when they have time, its a hobby. Dont forget alot of ppl enjoy programming its fun, its not like working in a coalmine or cottonfields.

    Am I making any sense? Bottomline is, for the most part OSS is not about money at all, business ppl love to make it look like it is to protect their own interest.
    IP

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    1

    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Re. CDraw vs. cairo, as I understand it:

    CDraw is clever and fast, it is an important part of Xara's ability to earn money so the Xara people can eat. If it were open sourced, Xara are afraid that nobody would have a reason to pay them any more and they would starve. Maybe there is a patent in there somewhere too, or other IP rights difficulties, I don't know.

    But because CDraw is not open to be modified by anybody, the free software community have a moral objection. Cairo overcomes this objection, at the cost of speed.

    The obvious answer is to make two versions available:
    1. An open-source cairo version, obtainable for free.
    2. A pay-for CDraw version, fast enough for the professionals.

    The only other way would be to convince the Xara folk that they really have more to gain than to lose by opening-up CDraw. I don't know how that could be done, though. Maybe the situation would have to change radically first, for example if the corporate user base ever gets large enough for Xara to survive on support contracts.

    Oh, yeah, and another way would be to speed up cairo ;-(
    IP

  8. #28
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    CDraw is not the be all and end all of everything... At some point in the near future I'm certain CDraw will be irrelevant, and whatever fork (if any) of Xaralx survives will function just as well if not better than it does now. Either that or Inkscape or possibly some other project will have progressed well beyond it.

    Yes, currently Cairo does need a lot more optimizations to speed it up, but it is progressing quickly. Also, QT developers have done some really awesome optimizations that likely rival CDraw in performance. So for now a QT based Xaralx may be the best way around the speed issue if Xaralx Open Source has any chance of progressing any further without a negative impact on performance.

    On the topic of Open Source. If you don't understand or appreciate the concept then, it's probably best that just stay away from it. Acting like it's going to destroy the world as we know it is ridiculous. No one forces developers to contribute to open source projects. They do so out of choice and it is that choice along with the openness and collaboration involved that produces some really great software, some of which would likely never be produced under the constraints of a commercial product. As humans we want to share with others, and this natural desire to share is what drives Open Source.

    Many corporations and developers are fearful of Open Source, because they fear the competition and they fear losing the ability to lock people into proprietary products and formats because,by and large, that is how many of them make their money... By trapping people into a product or format, rather than by innovating and providing good service. This is why there is such opposition to open source software, everything else is FUD.
    Last edited by jbus; 24 August 2007 at 01:20 AM.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    I'm sure, that Sun's executive vice president know something about Open Source and know the principles behind Open Source projects. Personally I use lots of Open Source solutions, too. But the problem is, that only the companies who started the projects are earning money through professional support contracts or something else - all the "free" developers don't see a penny. And that's the point, when he says, that "I think this is unfair and unsustainable. It's Robin Hood backwards. We are stealing from the poor and making other people rich, and this seems very bad. Humans will not do this, nor should they have to."

    It's not the originally Open Source concept, but it's the reality you're able to see all over the world in these days. Or could you show us your personal list of your bank transfers to each of these Open Source developers?

    Remi
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  10. #30
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Re: Xaralx progress!

    Remi, the BIGGEST problem is with companies that clearly are benefiting from Open Source software but never giving back to the open source community. Be it contributions to the code or monetary donations, there is a severe lack thereof.

    For example, companies that use open source software like LAMP severs (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP, Perl and Python) to run their corporate websites/intranet. These companies clearly benefit from open source development and should return the favor to the projects that they benefit from. Unfortunately this doesn't happen often enough. If it did, more open source projects would have the funding to pay some full time developers and progress more quickly. There are some exceptions though. One really good example is Google. Google is built on Open Source technology and does a great job of returning the favor back to the community through, both financial support and code contributions and even legal support. If more companies were like Google, the Open Source community would be ecstatic.

    Another issue is the likelihood that some commercial software is illegally using code from open source projects. The proprietary barrier shields this from coming to light in most cases. These are the worst type of offenders. It's fine to use open source code in your projects, but you MUST abide by the license. Which in most cases, unless it's a BSD type license, you mush share your changes with the community.
    IP

 

 

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