Problems when printing....

[`mishimasan`]

Hello all, I'm a graphic designer that has just designed a company price brochure which will go to print for 8,000 copies sometime tomorrow. However, I have had this small problem in the past that turned into a huge problem, that then dissapeared when I couldn't find out the cause and reinstalled all of my software.

It has resurfaced a day before print, and I need help... NOW! I do not want to reinstall my software, as I do not think that this will help. I want to understand what is going on and I have a feeling some of you here may be able to help me. This is an URGENT problem which needs attention from professionals asap... I appreciate all help in advance.

The Problem
=========

I create a file from Illustrator. In this file, there are some objects, some text and a background image saved as a .TIFF from Photoshop (pretty bog-standard tbh). I save the .ai as a .pdf since I am outsourcing the file to an industrial-sized printer.

When I get a proof of the work back.... there are artifacts on the background image... but JUST the background .TIFF image. The Illustrator objects and type are fine.... but the .TIFF looks like it has been slightly hashed up and rearranged. The image can still be deciphered as a sky, but parts of the clouds are re-occurring in different areas of the image, as if they have been cut and placed as seperate layers. As I said before, it is only the .TIFF image that is producing errors (see the two scanned images).

This problem only occurs after printing. It does not show itself pre-print, even though I am in strong belief that it is an error manifested into the background data of the image.

I know that there must be someone out there that knows what I am talking about, and I would appreciate ANY information that you may have on this matter.

Sincerely,

Clément

EDIT: I have possibly narrowed the problem down to transparency. After being created in Photoshop, the .TIFF has had the transparency altered in Illustrator and InDesign to achieve the desired effect. However, this seems to be what is causing the problem with the artifacts. Is this due to conflicts between Adobe programs? Do you think that it could be something else?

[Shaman]

Hi Clément:
I'll be interested to see if anyone can up with a definitive, final answer to this issue. But for now:

Things To Check
-------------------------------------------
Look at the file in outline view in Illustrator and see if anything shows up that shouldn't be there. if so, you may have your answer.
Bring the file that you had as a .TIFF into Illustrator/InDesign in as a .PSD or other format that isn't lossy and set it up there with the other files. You might try eliminating the transparency, if you can.
Don't depend on .PDF to be glitch-free, I once tried to output a .PDF to a platemaker, thinking it would take care of any issues in advance, ended up having to save that one in PageMaker format to get it to work, gritting my teeth.
When you are working with a printer, ask what has worked best for them, in the past, for whatever job you are creating this for. Brochures, flyers, books, etc.
Be willing to save in several different formats to give you and the printer, options.
New software would have options set to defaults, it occurs to me that resetting to defaults after every project might help. Wouldn't hurt to try it.
It is amazing and irritating what will and won't work. Ain't nothing is set in stone as far as computers, software, and printers, monitors, etc. are concerned.
Hope the job goes well,
Scott

[Albacore]

Sorry to come in so late here but I was working yesterday. It sounds to me that the tiff image was saved with compression to give that effect. Image (TIFF) is encoded wrong: ASCII or Binary. Turn compression off (LZW compression), that is the only thing that I can think could be wrong to give that effect. Cut and paste in directly from PS or import the PSD file directly rather than using the "Place" option required for tiff. Talk to the printers to see what they think and ask if their is any alternative formats that you could supply. Sharman has give you good info as well. Always a time for gritted teeth when you are on tight deadlines I am interested to knoww the outcome of this problem when you resolve it.

[`mishimasan`]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have made a hasty decision but under duress and lack of time.

To Albacore - The problems that you have pointed out don't seem to be the case, since I have not used any compression on the image and I have tried either placing or importing directly on separate occasions with the same results.

To Shaman - I know you're saying Shaman when you talk about not relying on .pdf's for a reliable output, I don't like .pdf's for even proofing - but can you suggest any other way of sending a 64 A4 page document to a printers? If I could send the InDesign book I would - but how can I flatten the entire thing so that it has the same quality but the layers are eliminated?

Anyway, the solution that I chose was to apply the transparency within Photoshop to the original images and then duplicate them since I was using the same image with different levels of transparency in different parts of the book. I just made different versions and then imported them directly into Illustrator for use with the vector art. Then they were finally imported into InDesign but the thing about this method that made it different was that no transparency was applied to the image. It had been saved WITH the original transparency applied in Photoshop so that there could be no conflicts later.

I sat for around 40mins on the day of surrendering the work with a friend I know in his office "ooo"ing and "ahhh"ing about what it could be.

Do you think that we made the right choice? We'll find out when it comes back from print. My heart is in the back of my throat for now.

Many thanks,

Clément aka `Mishimasan`

[Albacore]

When sending to the printers I try and talk to them about their preferences on handling transparencies as each different printer driver produces slightly different results. If you are using ID as your PDF creator you will need to have your text on the upper layer to get the effect that you want. I do company reports for most of my freelance work and I try as much as I can to stay away from transparencies in ID but I have used them in around 20 reports and I follow the help files in ID nearly to the letter. Here is an extract from the help file which is very general but it does go deeper:

"In most cases, flattening produces excellent results when you use an appropriate predefined flattener preset, or create a preset with settings appropriate for your final output. (See Controlling flattening using transparency flattener presets.) For a complete reference and troubleshooting guide on how transparency affects output, see the document "Achieving Reliable Print Output with Transparency" on the Adobe Web site.

However, if your document contains complex, overlapping areas and you require high-resolution output, you can achieve more reliable print output by following a few basic guidelines:

Important: If you're applying transparency to documents intended for high-resolution output, be sure to discuss your plans with your service provider. Good communication between you and your service provider will help you achieve the results you expect.

Overprinting objects

Although flattened objects may look transparent, they are actually opaque and don't allow other objects beneath them to show through. However, if you don't apply overprint simulation, the transparency flattener may be able to preserve basic overprinting of objects when exporting to PDF or printing. In this case, recipients of the resulting PDF file should select Overprint Preview in Acrobat 5.0 or later to accurately view the results of overprinting.

Conversely, if you apply overprint simulation, the transparency flattener provides a simulation of what the overprints look like, and this simulation results in all opaque objects. In PDF output, this simulation converts spot colors to process color equivalents. Therefore, Simulate Overprint should not be selected for output that will be color separated later."

Hope this helps and there is good help in the ID forum when printing with transparencies. One other question I might ask what PDF output do you use when you set the PDF output as I have found PDFX3 gives better results using transparencies.

[`mishimasan`]

Thanks a lot for that information - the link of the "Achieving reliable..." is really good. I'm reading it right now.

Hmmmm, interesting. If by ID you are referring to InDesign then yes, I did use InDesign to export my book to .pdf.

When exporting I use the High Quality Print preset, modified to include the 3mm bleeds that I use and also to not downsample any images. I don't use any standard for the .pdf because I've never researched that. In saying this, I actually feel stupid now. I knew there was a lot for me to learn about these programs since I've taught myself all of the Adobe applications that I use (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Acrobat).

What are the standards for and what are the differences between them?

Also, before I forget, there was a function in ID somewhere that allows you to "prepare" the work for print or something... "Pre-Flight"... is this option absolutely necessary to apply before exporting to .pdf... because I'll tell you now... I didn't apply it and have never applied it to mine. I only found out about it the other day.

Clément aka `MishimaSan`
(holds head in shame)

EDIT: My MSN handle is clamped@hotmail.com - please add me so that I can discuss with you further about these programs. I appreciate very much your time

[Albacore]

Preflight is just a quality checker to make sure that all file links are correct and fonts are used and which ones are embedded, which spot colours are used,etc.
The Package facility is when you create a folder for the fonts, linked graphics, folder for the ID doc., a customise report for printing, etc.

Here is my take on the PDF pre-sets in InDesign:

Smallest File Size is appropriate for PDFs that are to be e-mailed or posted online. This setting resamples raster images to 100 ppi, applies aggressive compression, and converts all images to RGB while retaining spot colors. This generates a file that is inappropriate for commercial printing and results in color shifts that may adversely alter the appearance of the PDF onscreen. The PDF is compatible with Acrobat 5.0 — transparency is not flattened.

High Quality Print is meant for printing on a desktop printer. Images are downsampled to 300 ppi and compressed with the Maximum quality setting. RGB images are not converted to CMYK, but existing CMYK and spot-color content is maintained, and the PDF is compatible with Acrobat 5.0.

Press Quality is similar to High Quality Print, but it uses InDesign’s current color management settings to convert any RGB content to CMYK on the fly, while retaining any spot content. While this setting generates a healthy PDF, its compatibility with Acrobat 5.0 may cause some problems with older devices. It places you at the mercy of someone else’s approach to transparency flattening.

PDF/X-3:2002 is intended for use in a color-managed workflow. Color profiles are embedded in the PDF, and RGB content is not converted to CMYK. Don’t use this setting unless specifically instructed to do so. These PDF files are compatible with Acrobat 4.0 — any transparency content is flattened in the process of generating the PDF.

PDF/X-1a:2001 is your best choice when you’re given no specifications for PDF file creation. Any RGB images are converted to CMYK during PDF generation, spotcolor content is maintained, and the compatibility with Acrobat 4.0 will render the PDF well behaved on a wide variety of devices.

Hope you get some info from this! Cheers

[`mishimasan`]

Wicked. I like the way that you rounded that down for me. It was the last two descriptions that I needed to know about.

Thanks m8,

Clément aka `Mishimasan`