Feature Request: LivePaint / Paint Bucket tool

[StevenWWinters]

I've just been looking at the latest Beta of Microsoft Expression, Blimey!

MMW, Is there a gradient mesh tool or equivalent?

Also, it seems that if Xara were to support an open vector plug-in api, that it would open the door to some impressive enhancements from 3rd party vendors. Doesn't Illustrator have a vector plug-in format?

[MarkMyWords]

I haven't spotted a gradient mesh. Expression has all sorts of bells and whistles, but the major selling point is it's mix of bitmap and vector tools in one program.

I looked at trying it out, but, as you might expect with MS, things aren't quite that straight-forward. I would need to install a windows upgrade, which is bigger than the program!

It's not a big deal, I just can't be bothered, too busy right now.

Have a look; http://www.microsoft.com/products/ex.../features.mspx


One thing it has reminded me of is what Expression calls 'assets' and Xara calls the 'Clipart Gallery'. This could be better in Xtreme, especially managing the folders and contents. I am building quite a large a collection of my own clipart, but have to use Windows explorer to manage the various files.

You can drag and drop from a clipart folder, but not too one or between folders. To add clipart to a folder you have to save the .xar file to the folder and then refresh the thumbnails. This is clumsy, by Xaras standards.

[handrawn]

I have the beta expression and the brushes are very nice, very responsive.
The program however is definately beta.
Some of the menu's are a bit awkward and unhelpful.
Import/export is a little rough and ready still.
The odd glitch or three here and there.
But it shows a lot of promise.
And yes you need MS .NET 3 installed first.
Apart from playing with the brushes I don't use it much at present.

[MarkMyWords]

Yes, it's definately not as intuitive as Xtreme, LOL!

Never the less, with Microsofts clout and the whole suit of related applications, this is bound to become a major contender in the CG stakes.

Not even Xara can afford to stand still.

I'm betting we see more emphasis on bitmap art and artists in the future of Xtreme or perhaps related products? It's an area that just cannot be ignored.

[MEB]

I'm betting we see more emphasis on bitmap art and artists in the future of Xtreme or perhaps related products? It's an area that just cannot be ignored.

Well i hope not! Don´t get me wrong MarkMyWords... here´s my view on it:
Photoshop is clearly above any other competition in the bitmap field, Fireworks gives you an hybrid enviroment to work on (pixel/vector based) and is incorporating tools and features from photoshop for improved compatibility.
The new Expression Design from Microsoft is another new competitor in that field (hybrid pixel/vector). And besides those there´s already tones of bitmap editors in the market...

There´s however a lot of room for improvement in the vector area. I believe sooner or later vectors will be able to do a lot of work traditionaly done in bitmap packages to the point where you aren´t able to know in wich type of program something has been done (except photographic work, color correction and similar tasks). With mesh tools, blend types , procedural textures, skeletal strokes/brushes and a wacom plus all the computing power that´s coming (multicore processors, graphic cards acceleration) theres´s a whole new level to be discovered, but for that happen it´s necessary to continue researching and improving vector tools (and not substitute them with tools designed with other purposes in mind, like bitmap edition).

Inkscape is already inovating with their novelty engraver´s toolbox, Tile Clone etc and a lot of interesting projects for GSoC. (3D tool, path effects just to name a few)

Xara has developed an impressive rendering engine that´s able to manipulate tones of objects with transparency, blends wathever, with great flexibility.
The best thing they can do (in my opinion) is to take advantage of it to offer new tools to broad the drawing capabilities of Xtreme in the vector arena.

There´s already some programs doing it. Vector skeletal brushes for example are available in at least 3 other vector packages, however they´re slow to redraw, the creation of new brushes is limited due to the poor support for transparency (and diferent blend types in the brushes itself) althought they can group several strokes in one brush (at least!). These type of operations should be possible in Xara Xtreme while keeping the program fast and responsive due to the eficient Xara´s rendering engine. That´s the type of improvements that i would like to see in next versions...

Miguel B.

[Soquili]

Just to input my 2 cents

Linux is working toward using SVG on the desktop in place of bitmapped icons and backgrounds.

Microsoft is working toward having a totally vector based desktop and graphics.

Will bitmaps become outdated relics like punched paper tape and cards?

With all the posts about SVG recently and how it should be more widely supported, I was a bit surprised to see this thread emphasizing bitmaps

[MEB]

Microsoft is working toward having a totally vector based desktop and graphics.

And the next version of Apple Mac OS (aka Leopard) expected to October, should follow the same path.

[MarkMyWords]

This is my point Soquili, bitmaps are, right now, top dog, but it is clear that vector graphics are superior.

I'm not arguing that Xara should become more of a bitmap program, but that it should include vector tools and functions that emulate the best of bitmap tools and functions. These need not add a multitude of extra buttons, but mostly options to existing tools.

For instance, if you did not have an object chosen and select the fill tool,it could automatically be in floodfill mode (I think AI's livepaint feature is good, but it's a 'stop-gap' hybrid measure). We can already work on objects within a clipview, so how difficult would it be to extend that option to make clipview into a 'live' mask? Simply having the option to automatically add new objects to the clipview group and keep them editable until the clipview group is 'locked'. Give the option for a custom brush to use the current fill or line colour instead of having to draw a stroke and keep selecting a colour, this would make using the 'airbrush' and creating texture/grunge brushes a damn sight easier.

I believe that more developers will be pushing, initially, hybrid solutions and eventually fully vector graphics. Xara is so damn close to being able to fulfil this that it has a head start and could leapfrog right past Expression, simply by adding a few options to it tools and functions that give the same advantages and ease of use of the few bitmap tools that keep so many using bitmap programs.

Other bitmap artists may have diffrent priorities, but I could throw away Photoshop if Xtreme had;

Masks, flood fills (of spaces), only slightly better brushes and actions.

I would happily do 99% of my work in Xtreme and Xara 3D, but I'm 'tied' to Photoshop right now, because of my need for these tools.

Apart from those things I love Xara, I would like (but don't really need) better file management in the clipart, fill and bitmap galleries, all the path functions available for each path tool (the number of times I have to select a line shape and then reverse the path is annoying), get rid of the 'pen tool' it seems redundent to me, the shape editor can do what that does and perhaps an easier way to manage colours, this is part of Xtreme that is not intuitive.

See I'm easy to please - just do everything I say LOL!

[Soquili]

Mark I understand your point.

I was only mentioning the vector desktops because they are less than a year away. Some Linux distributions already support SVG desktops. As Miguel pointed out Macs will have vector desktop when Leopard is released near the end of this year.

Bitmaps will not disappear overnight. Photoshop and other similar programs will still be needed for a few years.

I do 99.9% of my graphics work in Xara Xtreme. I use Illustrator, Photoshop, and Paint Shop Pro for file conversion when the Xtreme exported file doesn't work for the end user.

[MarkMyWords]

Sorry, I'm just so fed up with Photoshop, I see little 'must have' additions to it since version 7 and I think it is generally overpriced.

I love the intuitive and easy interface of Xara which hides a deep and powerful set of tools, not to mention the quality and editability of vector graphics.

But I'll just have to hold on until all the developers feel the need to do what I say, LOL!