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Thread: Cheating...

  1. #1
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    Default Cheating...

    I newly subscribe to an artists magazine. In the first issue I received, there is a letter to the editor denouncing use of photographic reference, projectors, tracing, gridding etc as CHEATING. The writer felt that there should be no aids between the eyes & the hands (other than the mind).

    It seemed to me this interpretation was pretty extreme but I know many feel this way. It seems to be a common attitude of the non-artistic layperson and many artists have some quilt feelings surrounding the issue.

    I'd be interested in what you folks think.

    Regards, Ross

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    I think, such people know nothing about the time you need to create great drawings/pictures with a computer - even with a photographic reference. They think, this good looking pictures comes for nothing within the graphic editor.

    Remi

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    I don't consider myself an artist, but I do enjoy computer graphics.

    Using sketches in making 3D models that are organic is pretty much common place. This is important in studio work as the concept artist may not even be in the same city as the CG artist and the CG animator.

    As cameras get more advanced, using digital renderings to create 3D CAD is imperative if a company wants to survive and be competitive.

    If one wants to be a sketch artist and/or canvas artist only, the I suppose that view is fine with me.

    However, in today's world if you want to have productivity with style you will use the tools afforded to you. There are some world class artists using digital technology today.

    There is nothing there that lessens the talent of a natural artist just because he works digitally.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    That writer wasn't refering to digital works but more about creating art in general. I imagine the person was an artist who paints landscapes or still lifes "from life". Doing so, of course, presents many challenges and the person's position was if you can't raise to those challenges you aren't a "real" artist -- but a cheater.

    With digital art it would be hard to only do things "from life". If I'm drawing a helicopter it is unlikely I can bring one to my backyard (or go to one) in order to draw it 'from life'. In general I think individual digital artists tend to deal with a wider range of subject matter and using reference materials is more accepted.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    Would the person that wrote the article also consider DiVinci to have cheated because he used a model for visual reference when he created the Mona Lisa? How about many of the beautiful still life paintings created from visual reference?

    Art critics and authors of 'Art' articles of that nature are often 'critical' because they lack the talent of the artist. Somehow they believe that since they lack the talent they have the right and ability to judge the art.

    Not that I have much art talent myself, but I do appreciate those that have.
    Soquili
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    Bill is no longer with us. He died on 10 Dec 2012. We remember him always.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    I think, such people know nothing about the time you need to create great drawings/pictures with a computer - even with a photographic reference. They think, this good looking pictures comes for nothing within the graphic editor.

    Remi
    Thing is, watching the discovery channels, even the great artist in the old
    day used that technique, they discovered it when they examined the
    perspective of some old paintings, the distortions could only be
    because they used the technique of punching a hole and so
    letting light it and the picture gets on the wall upside down.
    (so a camera technique), but they still had to colour it etc.

    So it is not cheating, just using what is available.
    be aware, not to become a ware.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    When I was a boy, one of the neighbors who lived in the neighborhood was a fabulous artist. He entered his art in some local contests and got nationally recognized. He worked for a telephone company and was about to transfer when he got a letter from Walt Disney Studios. The Studio offered him a job as an artist to work in their movie artist section (not sure what that would have been.)

    Anyway, I remember him talking about it and he said, "Drawing is fun for me and I don't want to have to make it my work." He also commented on how he took a photograph in his mind and could retain it for future use.

    He also did crossword puzzles in ink, but that's another story.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    The only way to produce an oil painting is to use canvas and oil paints.
    I have yet to find an oil painting produced by 'cheating' - such as by using a computer.


    >shrug< different tools require different skills. The airbrush artist is considered to be a 'cheat' by some yet airbrushing is an artform in itself as is the necessary masking.

    What real diffence the digital airbrush ?
    And what real diffence is the digital masking via drawing vector lines in Xara?


    The brush and oil artist will not achieve the results of the digital artist and the reverse is also true - although each may come close.

    We each use the tools to get the results we want.
    Alternatively, we each use the tools with which we are most at home and suffer the limitations of these tools which means, perhaps, not getting the results we would like.


    many artists have some quilt feelings surrounding the issue.
    Some insecure folks cuddle a blanket - I guess quilts are the modern equivalent.
    "Intbel" ... "Can't" is not an option.

    Compliance is futile. Resistance is futile. Just do your own thing an' ignore 'em.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    Raymond, thinking of oil painting as you suggest: Let's say you have two choices. One is to pose the model and paint her 'from life'. The other way is to have a photo which you then transfer onto the blank canvas using a grid technique or a projector. It was that second method the letter writer was complaining about. The writer's point being that a 'real' artist would only do it the first way.

    In digital art we have even more choices than the oil painter. Thinking of those cars some of you draw, I could take a SketchUp 3d model of a car, pose it as I like, and export its lines/shapes as vectors into Xara Xtreme where I could then colourize it and add reflections. The SketchUp approach would save time by getting the perspective perfect with almost no effort. It would save me considerable time... Would my approach be less "art" than yours if you achieved a similar result the hard way?

    Regards, Ross

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cheating...

    In a german book about "Painting from Photographs" the author reports about other artists who used references for their work, to name Courbet, Degas, Cezanne and Picasso. Also Macke and Zille. And besides Leonardo da Vinci there are also other artists like Vermeer and Canaletto, who used the "Camera Obscura" or other tools.

    If a artist wants to create an oil painting, he surely should use oil and canvas. But if a "old-style" artist don't know the modern methods of computers and painting/drawing programs, he is limiting himself in his possibilites.

    On the other side: Is this discussion not the same as "using plugins or not in Xtreme" or "creating pure vector graphics without photos/textures/..."? Someone is proud on things, he/she has reached under a strong learning curve and everything else is under level?

    It's more a problem, that some of the "old-style" artists are too much proud of their knowledge, so they aren't willing to recognize their problem. I wouldn't say, they are the "real" artists and others are cheaters. Perhaps, the experience to paint from a life model is more intensive (depends on the model ), but this doesn't mean, the art or the artist himself is "better".

    Remi

 

 

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