Update and news from Charles Moir

[thewump]

I think the question here is what can we DO to help? I can't code.. but I can be an evangelist.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=336515

If we all make a commitment to do what we can to raise the profile of XaraLX in the Linux community we are a part of that can only do good. Xara comes up in the ubuntuforum about once every few days, and I'll see what I can do about catching those posts and help people understand the product and promote it.

I'll go create a blog posting too.. these are things we can ALL do. The more buzz there is from the user community the more interest there will be in the developer community.

Keith

[jbus]

I think Charles Moir is a bit mistaken on some of the assumptions he makes.

While many Linux users do use some closed commercial software. It is largely restricted to that of which there is no open alternatives. Given the choice between open and proprietary software, Linux users will undoubtedly choose the open software. In other words, the majority of the OSS community, users and developers, view using free but proprietary software like Flash and various hardware drivers as a necessary evil UNTIL an open alternative is available. Installing Flash would not even be a consideration if it wasn't so pervasive on the web and quite frankly Xtreme is not in the same position Adobe is. We NEED Flash to view many sites on the web and we NEED drivers to get full functionality out of hardware. We do not NEED Xtreme, there are other alternatives.

I've said this before and I will say it again. The problem Xtreme for Linux is currently facing is not that there is a lack of willing developers to help with projects like this. The problem is that developers are hesitant to devote their time and effort to a project whose future is uncertain. As of yet we have not been given a reason to believe that this isn't a dead or dieing project.

It's clear that priority has been placed behind the commercial Windows version of this software, which is fine. But don't expect Linux/Mac developers to come in droves to donate their time and skills to a project that could be dropped at any time, especially when more open and more rapidly advancing alternatives exist.

The best thing that could be done to increase the market for Xtreme on Linux is to open it up COMPLETELY and let it grow as it may, or to produce a FULLY capable commercial version and sell and support it for those of us that would purchase it.

[GeoBen]

you would use a free, opensource version. You would use a paid, proprietary version, but you would NOT use a MOSTLY free hybrid?

hmm..

yeah, there does indeed have to be a NEED for a product in order for it to flourish... Linux, Windows, OS-X, free, commercial, whatever.

Now, I am not one to pimp the product over the user (as happens from time to time) but... let's face it, there is no drawing product like Xara on any platform at any price. I commend the folks doing the work on Inkscape, but, it may have occurred to some that the reason it is slow and cumbersome (ignoring its limited feature set) is that it lacks the low level core code that Xara wants to retain as proprietary.

If you want to shed the encumbrance of MicroCrud and still use the best software, you will pray that Xara gets over to Linux, full power soon. I do. Xara is the only app for which i still NEED windows. Waiting for XaraLX is the only think keeping me from switching.

Let em keep the core (I dunno how folks make a living giving their stuff away, anyhow). Just get it done, please.

geo.

[Avatar]

@GeoBen

the problem is not only a philosophy problem.

If the Core Drawing Code of Xara is releade the community has the garantee that the software will remain open source, because once you releaseu the code anyone can use it and release it under GPL

so, would you give your time working on a project following a precise phylosophy without the guarantee that that project will follow that phylosphy?

I wouldn't

But maybe the Magix would say the same thing, butlooking from the other point of view.. why should they release the core code, which is a real competitive advantage, without having the guardantee that someone of the community will develop the software?

---

Anyway I really like this software, probably in the future I will send some translation and I hope it will continue to exist ^^

[Shaman]

Hi:
Noticed this in this mornings rss feeds:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1726257

Sounds like a positive development, opinions?

Scott

[Soquili]

I'm not sure if this is positive or not. I've used Linux apps that incorporate Cairo and found them to be slow, but that may be that Linux GUI is slow compared to Windows or OS X.

The Xara LX with CDraw runs slow on my Linux machine. But it is still lightening speed compared to other drawing applications on Linux.

I noticed that one reply to the article thought that releasing the CDraw code would be beneficial to Xara Group (or should I say Magix). How can giving away all your assets help a company make money if your competitors can now enhance their programs using the best that Xara can offer.

I'm not a business person and most company decisions do not make sense to me anyway. However, most of the companies I have known that made decisions that I thought would lead to ruin...did go bankrupt.

[ivan louette]

Hi:
Noticed this in this mornings rss feeds:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1726257

Sounds like a positive development, opinions?

Scott

I find it positive ! Cairo also is capable of evolution. And if it's well suited for Linux, why not ?

Now what I am waiting for are a complete port of the application, new features like vector effects and also new artistic drawing features.

kindly
ivan

[jbus]

Hi:
Noticed this in this mornings rss feeds:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1726257

Sounds like a positive development, opinions?

Scott

This is good news for Linux users because it means yet another choice and a and hopefully one that will not see the stagnation that has occurred here in this project.

Although Cairo does need some optimizations, it would likely do just fine for most day to day drawings other than the extremely complicated ones. Furthermore, a QT based Xara LX could actually end up rivaling CDraw in speed. Maybe we could get QT devs in on this too. It would definitely be interesting with all the optimizations that the QT developers have been doing to see how the latest QT compares to CDraw. CDraw could quickly become irrelevant on Linux.

Though it's pretty much a dead issue, Carl Worth (Cairo Developer) made a pretty good point on the mailing list about how a GPLed CDraw wouldn't be as disastrous to Xara/Magix as many on these boards think it would be. At least not in Linux world.

Releasing CDraw under the GPL likely won't have the disastrous "use
> elsewhere" consequences you are imagining.
>
> I have to speculate here a bit, because I don't know exactly what
> the disastrous consequences are that you imagine. Is it that CDraw
> might get sucked into cairo, and then applications like inkscape
> could quickly start benefitting from it, and then inkscape might
> take developer mindshare instead of Xara?
>
> First, I'll ignore the fact that inkscape is already acknowledged
> as winning that mindshare already, even without any benefit from
> CDraw.
>
> Second, if CDraw were made available under the GPL, then it
> couldn't be immediately used in cairo, (not without cairo changing
> its license from LGPL/MPL to GPL, and that's quite unlikely to
> happen). For example, right now Zack Rusin at Trolltech is doing
> some really interesting things inside Qt with a vector-graphics
> library that's very much like cairo. It's available under the GPL,
> and the cairo community hasn't even looked at the code because of
> that, (in spite of the fact that Zack has recently added some stuff
> that we've been wanting in cairo for a while).
>
> Now, I actually don't love the fact that there's a bunch of
> duplicated effort in the community already between cairo and the
> Qt stuff. But I think the evidence is pretty good that GPL
> libraries do tend to maintain a sort of separate existence.
>
> (Interestingly, GPL applications wouldn't have any problem using
> GPL libraries, so maybe at some point GPL application authors will
> all start collaborating enough on GPL libraries that they start
> dominating, and things like LGPL libraries start disappearing.)

This makes perfect sense because Linux users & Devs are by and large very respectful and conscientious of licenses unlike our Windows counterfei...err counterparts.

If and when Xara were to release CDraw under GPL, no doubt, Xara would suddenly get the interest of a lot of developers and users. Though, I'm not sure Xara would know how to handle that. Maybe that's part of their fear. Fear of the unknown, fear that their Linux version could out pace their Windows version???