Update and news from Charles Moir

[jedfrechette]

For an excellent analysis of why Xara's open source strategy isn't working I suggest anyone who is interested read this message by Carl Worth

http://www.xaraxtreme.org/maillists/.../msg00038.html

[remi]

Charles already mentioned one of the main reason, why CDraw wasn't published up to now: There is no great feedback from "the Community" to develop new features like the completion of the SVG import/export filter. There are only members of "the Community" who asks for CDraw to include this piece of code into other projects like Linux OS or competition projects. There was even a developer who likes to do a port of Xara Xtreme for Linux for the Windows operating system, which is surely not the goal of Xara Ltd. and all the developers who work on this product for their living.

All the great developers of "the Community" wants "CDraw", but there was only one developer who was willing to do some coding for Xara Xtreme for Linux so far (I'm talking about Alex). Perhaps there was one or another two who tries to do a Mac OS X port, but that's all.

Under these circumstances I wouldn't recommend to open the source code of CDraw to all the nice competitors out there, which likes to call themselve "the Community"...

Regards,
Remi

[thewump]

I think the question here is what can we DO to help? I can't code.. but I can be an evangelist.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=336515

If we all make a commitment to do what we can to raise the profile of XaraLX in the Linux community we are a part of that can only do good. Xara comes up in the ubuntuforum about once every few days, and I'll see what I can do about catching those posts and help people understand the product and promote it.

I'll go create a blog posting too.. these are things we can ALL do. The more buzz there is from the user community the more interest there will be in the developer community.

Keith

[jbus]

I think Charles Moir is a bit mistaken on some of the assumptions he makes.

While many Linux users do use some closed commercial software. It is largely restricted to that of which there is no open alternatives. Given the choice between open and proprietary software, Linux users will undoubtedly choose the open software. In other words, the majority of the OSS community, users and developers, view using free but proprietary software like Flash and various hardware drivers as a necessary evil UNTIL an open alternative is available. Installing Flash would not even be a consideration if it wasn't so pervasive on the web and quite frankly Xtreme is not in the same position Adobe is. We NEED Flash to view many sites on the web and we NEED drivers to get full functionality out of hardware. We do not NEED Xtreme, there are other alternatives.

I've said this before and I will say it again. The problem Xtreme for Linux is currently facing is not that there is a lack of willing developers to help with projects like this. The problem is that developers are hesitant to devote their time and effort to a project whose future is uncertain. As of yet we have not been given a reason to believe that this isn't a dead or dieing project.

It's clear that priority has been placed behind the commercial Windows version of this software, which is fine. But don't expect Linux/Mac developers to come in droves to donate their time and skills to a project that could be dropped at any time, especially when more open and more rapidly advancing alternatives exist.

The best thing that could be done to increase the market for Xtreme on Linux is to open it up COMPLETELY and let it grow as it may, or to produce a FULLY capable commercial version and sell and support it for those of us that would purchase it.

[GeoBen]

you would use a free, opensource version. You would use a paid, proprietary version, but you would NOT use a MOSTLY free hybrid?

hmm..

yeah, there does indeed have to be a NEED for a product in order for it to flourish... Linux, Windows, OS-X, free, commercial, whatever.

Now, I am not one to pimp the product over the user (as happens from time to time) but... let's face it, there is no drawing product like Xara on any platform at any price. I commend the folks doing the work on Inkscape, but, it may have occurred to some that the reason it is slow and cumbersome (ignoring its limited feature set) is that it lacks the low level core code that Xara wants to retain as proprietary.

If you want to shed the encumbrance of MicroCrud and still use the best software, you will pray that Xara gets over to Linux, full power soon. I do. Xara is the only app for which i still NEED windows. Waiting for XaraLX is the only think keeping me from switching.

Let em keep the core (I dunno how folks make a living giving their stuff away, anyhow). Just get it done, please.

geo.

[Avatar]

@GeoBen

the problem is not only a philosophy problem.

If the Core Drawing Code of Xara is releade the community has the garantee that the software will remain open source, because once you releaseu the code anyone can use it and release it under GPL

so, would you give your time working on a project following a precise phylosophy without the guarantee that that project will follow that phylosphy?

I wouldn't

But maybe the Magix would say the same thing, butlooking from the other point of view.. why should they release the core code, which is a real competitive advantage, without having the guardantee that someone of the community will develop the software?

---

Anyway I really like this software, probably in the future I will send some translation and I hope it will continue to exist ^^

[Shaman]

Hi:
Noticed this in this mornings rss feeds:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/02/26/1726257

Sounds like a positive development, opinions?

Scott

[accessD]

Charles already mentioned one of the main reason, why CDraw wasn't published up to now: There is no great feedback from "the Community" to develop new features like the completion of the SVG import/export filter.

I can write such filter even without great C++ skills.
But who need this stupid SVG? How people couldn't see that SVG is "stillborn child"?
Look at Inkscape gallery. What format is used to show their great works?
Is it SVG? No. It is good old JPG or PNG.
Can you see many sites using SVG? No.
Can you see many viewers capable to show SVG in any way? I dont think so.
Any printing solutions for SVG?
So, again, who need this SVG?

I have theory about this
The answer is - SVG is the choise of new paranoid wave - Free Software people. They are not worrying about goal. They are more worried about process. So they dont need XAR, they need SVG.

P.S. I like free software, I just don't like paranoiacs.

[remi]

Dmitry, I agree with you: The .XAR format is better. But the problem is, all these OpenSource users are programmed through thousands of Blogs, Websites and also Magazines how great SVG is and that it's really important (in their eyes) to use this "Standard" vector graphics format.

The consequence of this "hype" is, that SVG is the de facto standard for vector graphics under Linux: Not for Desktop Publishing, but for exchange between other Vector Editors and for saving Icons and Wallpapers (and sometimes Websites as a Flash replacement).

There is generally a trend to use vector graphics within Desktop Environments or Applications (SVG under Linux and XAML under Windows Vista). So, to support the needs of Linux users, a great SVG import/export filter is important.

Remi

[Tarabaz]

hi,

i'am a linux user since over 4 years. i think, a svg export called like a good idea, but it isn't. svg don't support most of the great features, that make xara so different to other programms like inkscape.

ok, it's possible to create an exporter, that create svg's from your xara pictures, and then? you can see the cool effects in an svg file, but you can't work with them.

i don't think, that svg will ever be the standard for vektorgraphiks in the web, this is only a dream of the unix community.

i think, there are many other possible features, to make xaraxtreme a better software. a svg exporter can only be a toy without a real usability.

if the open, flash compatible, alternative for the flashplayer is finnished, no one aks for svg again. then we will see a developement community that want to create a good free swf editor.

svg is trendy at this moment, but i don't think, that this format have a great future.

Tarabaz