Next version of Xara Extreme

[remi]

Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.

But I think, we all know the advantages of vector drawings and therefore we love to see new vector-based functions in Xara Xtreme (I would say, that enhanced text-editing functions are also vector-based functions).

Xara Ltd. is in a great position: There is a strong community here in this forum, which offers a free support for Xara Xtreme. Therefore, the developers are able to concentrate on developing further functions to enhance Xara Xtreme (and I believe, they have already done this and we will notice this in the next days...).

Regards,
Remi

[amoore]

At Last Somebody On My Wavelength!!!!

You are not alone. You are not alone. You are not alone.

I've been using Xara since it took up 10mb on my hard drive and still did everything I needed graphics-wise except for screen captures and some minor bitmap manipulation (mostly replacing text in said captures). I want it to stay fast, lean and mean (ok, fast, lean and user-friendly .

As for some raster tools being more intuitive, I have to ask "intuitive to whom?" Not to me. Guess I'm just a vector girl at heart.

Please, let's not bloat our beloved Xara. Lard has never been known as a health food -- for people or applications.

[amoore]

Why change an excellent program to make it become a mediocre program that tries to do too much. There are already enough of those available.

Hear, hear!

[MEB]

MarkMyWords and others: what i´ve said is just my point of view regarding this subject. Peolple are free to request whatever they desire, i´m just a Xara user like you and all here. That´s not the question.
What i meant with my last post is that a generic application that can do all stuff (raster/vector in this case) isn´t necessary better that one specialized in just one area.
In an extreme situation if all software producers expanded the range of funcionality of their applications to their fullest, we will probably end with lots of slow and bloated applications doing basically all the same functions without one being better or offering something unique than the others.

What really makes the software interesting, competitive and rich is the variety of workflows, concepts and approaches that are being explored by the software houses and in last instance by their users.
Xara Xtreme is (to my eyes) one of that specialized tools in the vector arena that offer something really unique that you will not find in any other vector application software: it´s insanely fast; it´s interactive approach of the tools is unique and both contribute to get an immediate feedback while you are working. Resuming it doesn´t break your workflow.
While some people may look at it as an application that lacks some advanced bitmap editing functions (that´s not Xara Xtreme goal anyway), i and i´m sure some more users look at it as an advanced vector application with an enourmous potencial in the vector field to be explored. And that is what makes Xara Xtreme diferent from other software solutions. And that´s the reason i use it.

So instead of making it generic and bloated with bitmap/raster functions similar to other generic software laying around why not improve the areas where it already excels and where it can really make the diference to the competition?

[MarkMyWords]

In Photoshop they have some vector tools, but when you use a rastor tool it informs you that the vector will have to be converted to a rastor layer.

The same would hold true for those type of tools to work in Xara. That would lose the advantages of the vector format for that project.

Well, actually I didn't say I want Xara to have 'bitmap tools', I'm pretty sure I can create anything in Xara (as a vector image) that I can in Photoshop (as a bitmap) and the output of Xara is in my opinion far superior.

What I'm after are easy ways to emulate the efficiency and intuitive way bitmap tools work, the ability to do that would open up the program to a vastly larger number of potential users.

For instance, I can 'mask' areas of a Xara image so that paint is only applied in areas I want (with a hard edge if needed to the masked area) regardless of it overlapping several objects, which is one thing that makes illustration much easier and more intuitive for me, but that technique involves far more steps (and a bit more lateral thinking) than in a bitmap program.

There is absolutely no reason why some tools similar to those in a bitmap program cannot be included in a vector program, I think Flash has a magic wand.

Having said that, I do understand that a large part of Xaras appeal is it's simple and clean interface. Since it is possible to emulate some bitmap tools with work-a-rounds, an action palette seems to me to be the perfect solution. It wouldn't be difficult to include a collection of actions that emulate bitmap tools in the Xara 'bundle'. Those who don't want them need never load those actions. The only real additon to the interface would be the Action palette, which I am sure would be of use to almost all users.

[MEB]

Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.
Remi

Microsoft already did thatwith their new acrylic software allowing to work with vector layers as well as raster layers. However due to the diferent nature of the bitmap layers versus vector layers you will end up with a non scalable image, since the bitmap parts of the image are not scalable.

Macromedia Fireworks takes a diferent way: it´s an hibrid approach, using vectors to control the objects but rendering them in realtime as bitmaps (rasterising). So the end images keep their scalability (unless you use any bitmap as texture or something else but that´s another story).
This is great for creating graphical users interfaces, icons and anything else that will show up on a screen however the vector tools are less versatile than those provided by Xara, and is inadequate for print work.

So there´s really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation
of those two types.

[remi]

So there´s really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation of those two types.

Oh yes, there is a way and Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps in only one drawing without the need to create vector/bitmap layers.

Whenever you create a vector shape with Xara Xtreme together with a shadow Xara Xtreme creates a combination of vector shape and bitmap (shadow).

And there are a lot of other functions which works as vector/bitmap integrated function (for example a vector shape with a bitmap fill).

The only problem is, that some of the bitmap functions like Crop, Red Eye Removal, 3D Bump Map, Bitmap enhancement functions (Brightness, Saturation, Contrast and Blur/Sharpen) aren't integrated in the Xara Xtreme tools, but outsourced to the Xara Picture Editor.

But Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps and if you use Bitmaps with high resolutions, there is no problem to print these vector/bitmap combinations.

Remi

[Tallis]

"some vector features would become difficult or impossible to implement."

That's what software engineering has been about from day one! Tradeoffs, yes, to be sure. But also achieving what was previously impossible.

Oftentimes, if you think it can't be done, or if you think it can be done, you're right...

[MEB]

Remi, i´m aware that Xara renders some objects as bitmap (bevels, shadows etc) but those are generated in realtime and are attached to a shape. You aren´t really able to edit them as bitmaps (at a pixel level) because you don´t have direct control over them (you can only manage the shapes they are attached to). If you convert them to editable shapes you end with one bitmap rendered at the dpi specified in the Xara Xtreme options. Resuming those bitmaps are being driven by their correspondent shapes (and redrawn when needed) but that´s not what i was talking about. I´m talking about direct pixel level edition inside a vector program while keeping scalability.

[Soquili]

"Because something can be done is not a reason that it should be done"

Surely many things can be changed about Xara, but would it make the program better than it is. Simply "because I would rather have all the tools in one program" is not an adequate answer.

Corel and Adobe have added new features as people have requested them. Have they made a better product? Many people believe they are the best product. For those people it may be. I personally don't find them to fit my work style.

Changes were made between Xara X¹ and Xara Xtreme. There are some users that have not upgraded to Xtreme because the features they need are not available. Was the trade off worth it for them? Obviously not.

Will future trade offs make the program less desirable for current users?

Will the people requesting changes find they no longer need that feature as they become more comfortable with the way the program works without it?

I'm not opposed to new features. The Action Scripts would be a nice addition. I just don't want to lose existing features.