Next version of Xara Extreme

[MarkMyWords]

Well, why shouldn't people request the tools they want? I don't go for the purest principle that says this is what it is, take it or leave it.

Software producers need to respond to their market, just like we all do.

As for the difference between bitmap and vector programs, vector programs are far superior in their output, this cannot be denied, but many of the tools in a bitmap/paint program are more efficient and intuitive. Why not emulate those tools and bring more people into using vector programs?

I understand fully the desire to keep Xara's simple interface and not overload it with 'extras' that would only be used by a few. I (for instance) have only asked for one feature, an actions palette.

As I have said, Xara is capable of emulating many of the tools being asked for and more, but those 'work-a-rounds' tend to be comparatively slow and complex operations.

An actions palette, similar to Adobes, would automate such tasks and other repetitive tasks as well. At the moment I use a third party macro recorder, but that is far from being the ideal solution.

Add, to that increased functionality, the ability to swap actions with other users and it becomes very exciting indeed. There are literally millions of actions available for Photoshop (free) online and that extends that programs capabilities enormously.

[Soquili]

In Photoshop they have some vector tools, but when you use a rastor tool it informs you that the vector will have to be converted to a rastor layer.

The same would hold true for those type of tools to work in Xara. That would lose the advantages of the vector format for that project.

[Tallis]

I think the botom line is that the product is already touted and advertised as on ethat can handle bitmaps as well, and it has "powerful" tools and plugin capabilities to handle raster as well as vector. I would assume that this decision came-- to include these features-- precisely due to market reasearch indicating that many people would like some raster capabilities so they would not have to keep leaving Xara to do work and then returning to add some vector items.

So if the product was designed to be equipped with exactly these type of non-vector features, why yearn for the continued exclusion of an updated set of these bitmap features?

I now that a statistics app will never be a 3D drawing program, and shouldn't. I'm only a doctor, not a physician....

[Soquili]

The problem is that there comes a time when a trade off has to take place. To add those features that raster users want, then some vector features would become difficult or impossible to implement.

Why change an excellent program to make it become a mediocre program that tries to do too much. There are already enough of those available.

[amoore]

Why change an excellent program to make it become a mediocre program that tries to do too much. There are already enough of those available.

Hear, hear!

[remi]

Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.

But I think, we all know the advantages of vector drawings and therefore we love to see new vector-based functions in Xara Xtreme (I would say, that enhanced text-editing functions are also vector-based functions).

Xara Ltd. is in a great position: There is a strong community here in this forum, which offers a free support for Xara Xtreme. Therefore, the developers are able to concentrate on developing further functions to enhance Xara Xtreme (and I believe, they have already done this and we will notice this in the next days...).

Regards,
Remi

[MEB]

Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.
Remi

Microsoft already did thatwith their new acrylic software allowing to work with vector layers as well as raster layers. However due to the diferent nature of the bitmap layers versus vector layers you will end up with a non scalable image, since the bitmap parts of the image are not scalable.

Macromedia Fireworks takes a diferent way: it´s an hibrid approach, using vectors to control the objects but rendering them in realtime as bitmaps (rasterising). So the end images keep their scalability (unless you use any bitmap as texture or something else but that´s another story).
This is great for creating graphical users interfaces, icons and anything else that will show up on a screen however the vector tools are less versatile than those provided by Xara, and is inadequate for print work.

So there´s really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation
of those two types.

[remi]

So there´s really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation of those two types.

Oh yes, there is a way and Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps in only one drawing without the need to create vector/bitmap layers.

Whenever you create a vector shape with Xara Xtreme together with a shadow Xara Xtreme creates a combination of vector shape and bitmap (shadow).

And there are a lot of other functions which works as vector/bitmap integrated function (for example a vector shape with a bitmap fill).

The only problem is, that some of the bitmap functions like Crop, Red Eye Removal, 3D Bump Map, Bitmap enhancement functions (Brightness, Saturation, Contrast and Blur/Sharpen) aren't integrated in the Xara Xtreme tools, but outsourced to the Xara Picture Editor.

But Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps and if you use Bitmaps with high resolutions, there is no problem to print these vector/bitmap combinations.

Remi

[Tallis]

"some vector features would become difficult or impossible to implement."

That's what software engineering has been about from day one! Tradeoffs, yes, to be sure. But also achieving what was previously impossible.

Oftentimes, if you think it can't be done, or if you think it can be done, you're right...

[MEB]

Remi, i´m aware that Xara renders some objects as bitmap (bevels, shadows etc) but those are generated in realtime and are attached to a shape. You aren´t really able to edit them as bitmaps (at a pixel level) because you don´t have direct control over them (you can only manage the shapes they are attached to). If you convert them to editable shapes you end with one bitmap rendered at the dpi specified in the Xara Xtreme options. Resuming those bitmaps are being driven by their correspondent shapes (and redrawn when needed) but that´s not what i was talking about. I´m talking about direct pixel level edition inside a vector program while keeping scalability.