Nested (Grouped) Layers - Feature request

[DanGruen]

I often make complex images that involve many layers. I wish there were a way to group and nest layers together, much as can be done now in Photoshop. I find Xara faster and more elegant for much of the work I do, but I truly miss this capability.

For example, I frequently create mockups of user interfaces shown at various points of an interaction. I might have a set of layers representing a chat widget. The lower of these would include the background, frames, and interface elements that would always appear when the widget is shown. Others layers would include indicators and text at different points during an interaction. When I do similar work using Photoshop, it's nice to have these layers grouped so I can

1. Turn them off altogether when the widget should not be on screen,
2. Collapse them into a single listing to make it easier to get to the layers I want to modify,
3. Move the layers together

[RedWombat]

Welcome DanGruen!

I agree! The layers feature is pretty weak.

I would like to also see and be able to select each object that is on each layer. It would be very nice. They could also implement something along the concept as Frames in Fireworks.

I work so much with layers in other applications. They really make my workflow streamlined.

[jclements]

Yes, I have often needed those capabilties too.

[Albacore]

I don't think that any serious user would disagree with your request.

[BarryWilkins]

It would also be useful to me if Select, Group, etc., only worked on objects on the active layer or layers that were grouped and active.

[Markku]

I put my vote for a frames concept like in Fireworks a'la RedWonbat.

It reduces the Layer tree significantly. All layers are present in each frame but the content can vary from frame to frame in each layer. In Fireworks' frames concept you can give some layers a Shared attribute which shows the layers content identically in each frame. Great for GUI work and reduces the file size too.

The Fireworks' frames concept would also be huge benefit for Xara's own animated GIF workflow. No more need for separate workflows for static and animated creations.

Btw. object selection from the layer tree is a must.

- Markku

[pauland]

Yes, it's a mystery to me why Xara has completely ignored this..

[Charles Moir]

There are actually quite a few separate feature requests here. I'm not familiar with the Fireworks Frames concept, but I'd be reluctant to add any more jargon or concepts. More complexity means steeper leaning curve.

The ability to have nested layers does make sense. We can look into this. But I don't understand this point.

It would also be useful to me if Select, Group, etc., only worked on objects on the active layer or layers that were grouped and active

Select / Group etc only do work on active layers (that is ones with the check in the layer gallery). If the 'edit' check is off then the layer is inactive.

[pauland]

The point isn't too clear to me either, but I would expect that if a group of layers were marked inactive, all layers in the group would become inactive and vice versa. i suppose it would be a nice touch to allow a nested layer to override the setting if it were explicitly set.

For example, group 'bkg' contains layers A,B and C. If I set 'bkg' to be inactive, I'd expect it to flip the nested A, B and C layers to inactive as well. If I still wanted to to see layer A, I'd like to set the inactive state to active, which would then also set the 'bkg' stage to active, but leave layers B and C in they're inactive state.

Similarly, if I now set 'bkg' to active from inactive, I'd expect A, B and C to become active. If I then set layer A to inactive, I'd expect the 'bkg' nesting layer to remain active.

The nested 'bkg' layer is more a folder controlling the active states of the layers nested in it, than a layer in it's own right.

Hope that explains my interpretation of nested layers.

Paul

[RedWombat]

I like the Grouped layers concept and brough up Fireworks because I think Macromedia (Adobe now) did a very good job of way Fireworks uses layers.

Charles, have someone on your staff or perhaps yourself download a trial of Fireworks to see what we mean.

Basically Fireworks uses functions to enhance layers.

You have a layer, simple enough, inside that layer it lists all the objects within that layers whether text, bitmap, curve, etc. with a small preview of the object. You can have multiple layers just as in Xtreme, but you can see the stacking and move objects by dragging them within the layers.

The second very effect management of layers is the Frames I mentioned. I know it sounds like jargon, but I say Frames because that's the way Fireworks describes them. Basically Frames are like another page or "Frame" using a GIF analogy. Each Frame has the same layers as every other, but the content on those frames are different, much like another page might have different content. A powerful attribute of this concept is to be able to create master objects that are available across frames as mentioned above, a design for a web page is a simple one. It simulates a multi page environment. A few examples of how I use them: I create visual presentations, not boring PowerPoint stuff, but graphically intersting. Sometimes they can be 30 - 50 slides long. With Frames in Fireworks, I can share some objects across the Frames to create a coherent presentation. I keep them all in one file and export them for use with one batch process.

Xara, you've got a lot of great things going with Xtreme. The Layers is one I can see that needs some really serious help.

Thanks for poking about the threads Charles. You're the only CEO I've seen that really cares about their product like that.