Pre-load NavBars

[pcontour]

http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Automatic is the same setting I'm using, and I have a less generous cache. Could you do this experiment using my website. After you bring up the first page on my site http://members.rogers.com/kdhersey. Mouseover all of the menu items in my menu bar. Two of them have dropdowns, please mouse over those as well, then pick another page and see if my menus have the same problem you experienced.

I have one page with 16 thumbnails and one large picture that load when it opens. I deliberately didn't preload the other images because the entire page would load so slowly on a 56k modem that no-one would wait.

[levelfr]

http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gifChatterie de La Vieille Grange

May I add my input here?
I don't have this pb for I use frames......I am still trying to figure out why do everyone abandon frames in web design, but here it is:
I installed my navbars in the left frame and the content is displayed in the main frame.
As a result: the main page is loaded fast enough, and the navbar is loaded only once

Any constructive remark is welcome

[pcontour]

http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I'm delighted that you responded. On this forum I'm one of the novices. I'm good at solving problems, but short on a lot of concepts. I can't tell the difference between frames and nonframes. I have used a variety of layout tables and regular tables to put together my pages.

With Frontpage, I guess that I'm not using frames because my entire page refreshes when I go to a new page. Am I right? Honestly, I keep asking myself, why is it repainting the whole page if the navigation buttons on the left bottom and top are never changing, except for the title of the page.

I'm evaluating Xara, and I've read that Xara dropdown menues, can't open over a frame. I haven't seen anyone contradict that. Is it true.

Do you have some suggestion for me. Can I get frontpage to use frames. Is this what makes Dreamweaver a better choice. If you are using frames are you using a different tool to cross over the frame boundary for submenues.

[levelfr]

Hi FP-User,
to answer your remark about frames:
I use Dreamweaver, but I'm sure it works fine with FrontPage, and I choose a 3-frame-layout
Each frame opens a different html file.
The overall frame set is called the index.html
Only the main frame is refreshed with the various content
I read everywhere that one should not use frames in webdesign as it reveals ergonmic issues.....!!!! I am really puzzled by this statement and still try to understand why 90% of the web sites have abandonned frames.
I don't see the issue!

Regarding Xara menus that opens accross frames, I have no issue at all, for each item of a menu I can specify the target frame

I hope this helps http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[BrianE]

FP-User:-
I tried the experiment and the navbars loaded button by button on the opening page, however on subsequent pages they load instantaneously.
Fred Level:-
Frames are certainly not in fashion today, however I have looked at your site and I like the layout. It certainly is a possible solution to slow loading navbars as you only load them the once.
I think frames are not popular because in the early days you tended to have TOP Frame followed by a LEFT & RIGHT Frame: then designers would add vertical and/or horizontal scroll bars which made the whole page untidy.
I think they is a place for frames if used correctly, and I feel you site has achieved this.

[pcontour]

Fred Level
- I was investigate in FP looking for frames, I found them. I was creating a discussion website as I experimented with Xara. FP gives me a variety of layouts and warns that "Not all browsers support Frames." We have Opera, Mozilla, Netscape and IE, and many version.
- Here's two Ergonomic issues. 1. Example: MSN hotmail. Keeps their frame on top of everything I link to from my email account, it stays at the top of the screen steeling my realestate. Ironically, when in hotmail they don't have a frame on my page, it's just when I link to something.
Frames do not scroll up, so "Branding" stays at the top of the screen. Some sites have a button that says click here to break out of someone else's frames. Ergonomic issue 2: People using 640-480 screen resolution can get fed up with a frame that takes up 1/4 of the page they can see (6 of 24 lines). FP provide the option to view a screen in 640x480 size. My personal opinion, about 3 years ago was that it was no longer acceptable for me to use a screen with that size because too much information on the internet required me to scroll sideways down and sideways again. So now I refuse to code for any user who has a screen resolution smaller than 800x???. My guess is that the distaste for frames arose around that time or earlier. Now it may no longer be particularily relevent. Although we still have the browser issue.
BrianE
- thanks for doing that experiment it allows me to draw some conclusions, that will be to my benefit when considering users who have low-speed access, and perhaps to you as well.
- You accomplished your goal, of eliminating slow menues, by preloading on your home page. Your statement "I have pre-loaded my images onto the readers HD thru JavaScript." is a bit incomplete. You pre-loaded them to the users temporary internet cache on their harddrive. After all tomorrow they don't have them anymore.
- Warning - If your website is cataloged by a search engine, it will catalog any page with enough relevent content. In such a case, I could link from a search engine to any page in your site. So if I don't come through the home page, I don't get the items cached for me. I think that Preloading of a any active graphics menu bar, would at least double it's load time as specified by the Xara software. But I could be wrong, we would have to ask them. For pre-caching the waiting happens before the page even shows up, rather than while you are looking at the screen. For myself I'm not going to preload my Xara menu on any pages even though you identified the same problem on my page as on yours. If I force precaching of my menu bar on every page it would take an extra 6 seconds to load every page for your machine. Why? Because even if the images are there, we are forcing the precaching. If I do nothing there is a problem on the first page and on any subsequest page where the user accesses a menu item they accessed before. You verified by accessing everything on the first page of mine that the problem is a first time use problem for each and every active graphic on the menu. With frames the Menubar would still have to be preloaded once, to avoid the problem. Given that it's frames, it would do it only once.
I would say that any button that appears on only one page is a good candidate for precaching if you think that most users are going to clickon/hover over it.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Does someone know if I'm right. If you force precaching of items does it do it everytime you return to that page. </span>

[levelfr]

BrianE, FP-User,
I read your posts with high interest.
I don't have the answer about impact of pre-loading on each page, but I guess it would be easy to test.
This might not be the brightest idea, but what about, preloading a very light version of the navbar, while the final one overrides?
Let me clarify my thought:
Imagine you make a copy of the button images, in a very light version (greyscale?), hyperlink being already implemented,
this version would load quickly, and yet the visitor would soon realize that each greyscale button gets overriden one by one, with a full color one.
Adjusting the loading sequences, the visitor would already have some content to read while this process is completing.
Maybe it's not such a good idea, the issue being: what is the best compromise between
1-loading time of the full color navbar, not knowing what it's going to be, and
2-having a greyscale pre-navbar before the final one, but yet already knowing what the sites has to offer
I never tried this, 'just came-up

[BrianE]

Thanks for the interest shown in this topic. For sometime I was a little surprised that no one seemed to think it worthy of comment.
I have pre-loaded my navbars on the SPLASH PAGE, hence no one can return to this page via the web site navbars. This is an introductor page which acts as a filter for those coming to the site in error.
TVAA
If I go to a web page on the site without going thro' the SPLASH PAGE the navbars loaded slower i.e. button by button.

[pcontour]

BrianE:
I was interested in the topic, as your problem is my problem, if I'm using these menues.

You didn't ask for a review of your site, but regarding the "Splash" page.

Clickable Link to Site, I was trying to find out how to get into your actual site and this was not easy enough.

Here is a simple way to do the same thing. http://www.raw-pleasure.com/ - It's about food.
It's a great looking site. When I can make my sites as nice as that one, I'll be satisfied with my efforts. He had an Xara menu, but he's
removed it.
If you want to have credit for the design. I wouldn't put it in one of those banner adds. I don't think people are even going to read it. They haven't even seen your site yet, so they aren't going to be saying wow, who made this site. I think it's smart when a little note or icon is on the bottom of each page. Designed by Angel View Graphics, would be classy.

Put your site into the please review topic, and find out what people really think.

SiteLevel looks interesting.


Fred: That might work. I'd be concerned about it adding to the total load time. You could really just make it one graphic instead of several for you greyscale idea.