I don't mean to rain on parades, but serious people please listen!

[shawnsat]

I am risking sounding like a pompous ass to most people here, but there are some with talent that might listen. I don't want to tout where I've been or what I've done (here it is if you want to see me put my money where my mouth is - http://www.sandsdesigns.com ) but I think I see a problem with Painter users and computer users in general. Just because your latest program has an image hose that paints trees, doesn't make you a landscape artist. Please people, use these new tools the way no one would expect, we can all spray the nozzel randomly on the canvas! And we all have! We just don't all post it as our latest fine art! I don't mean to degrade or desrespect anyone, I just want to see that we can (and I know we can) do better than the paint, the pencil, the software; whatever we choose as a tool. The use of a good tool marks a good artist, but it doesn't make him or her an artist!!!
SS

shawnsat
http://www.sandsdesigns.com
shawnsat@comcast.net

[Ross Macintosh]

That looks good Risto. It shows you are a man who appreciates all of life.

Ultimately we all share the same air, water, and food nuitrients and the same capacity for learning and experience. What we have that is unique is our imaginations. We don't have to share our thoughts but it can be a wonderful when we do. (Sometimes at least http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ). Thanks to all of you for sharing. Your 'art' gives us glimpses into those private imaginations and from those glimpses we get a richer experience of life.

Regards, Ross

PS - the violin music can stop now.

[RTK]

Mr. Hanky!

I have missed you! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The show (South Park) got cancelled on the channels I get... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I'm waiting for the complete/full/all-minutes DVD set to come out!

Love that show!

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[Grafixman]

I use the image hose whenever it is needed. Not because I'm lazy, but because it fills a need. I understand your view on overusing it, but then you'd be out there waging war on dropshadows and bevels, too http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.
Lighten up, man.
You're serious about your work, but sometimes, you make something just for fun. Then you let your imagination run wild and flush down everything you learned about art down the toilet. So what? Many of those same ideas they teach you at school originated by random experimentation.

[Grafixman]

I wouldn't go into the what constitutes art debate. But Shawn's topic got this silly image into my head :

http://home.pchome.com.tw/art/grafixman/ban.gif

True, you shouldn't take things too lightly everytime. But if you don't enjoy it, why bother with it?

[OklaEd]

O' ... the tortured psyche of the sensitive Arteeest!

As John Stossel would say ... Give me a Break. Did Picasso worry about how his "style" would be received by the "art" world when he created STARRY NIGHT? ... Was Madonna trying to please the "purists" of the music industry when she developed her personna? ... I think not.

What makes a Monet better than a Manet? Truely Manet was the purer "Artist" since he developed his own style and subject matter ... Monet was one of at least 12 French impressionists who studied together and all painted the same subject matter in VERY similar styles. The difference is that a Monet painting will bring MUCH more at auction than a Manet of the same size and condition.

What is the point? ... UTILITY. If I produce a graphic for myself ... and I like it ... it is good art. If I produce a graphic for a car dealership ... and it sells cars (or brings people in) ... it is good art. If it is created for the public at large ... and it evokes an emotion or reaction ... is it NOT good art? What difference does it matter how the image was created ... and why should anyone care?

If you recall Galileo was forced to denounce his theory of the "earth being round" by the PURISTS ... who would have no such nonsense.

-Ed.

[RTK]

Richard,

Art, as in hanging in galleries, and museums, will always be in traditional media, one-of-a-kind-art... IMHO... Yes, one might argue that photography is as easily reproduced as a digital print - but hey, the cheapest Picasso painting equals all photography existing on the planet... (almost... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Why even strive for "art" when working digital? Art as in "hanging-in-galleries-art" when you can create imagery/designs under the strict (or not) guidelines of art directors of major magazines and make good money - if you are really good at what you do?

You can also make a lot of money on marketing prints/designs if you create something that people really want... why worry about "Fine (gallery) Art?!"

I don't get it? http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Also, to clarify - I'm not a "Fine artist http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" nor am I an "accomplished illustrator/desiger http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" - to me, creating my pictures, is just a hobby, I do it for my own enjoyment - mostly http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif...

I have been lucky enough to being able to license/sell to some design agencies and private individuals (without going out there - they found me), but does it pay enough to feed my kids - not even close... However, the time I spend drawing is more productive than watching TV... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Also, I have learned a lot - should I ever get more time drawing my silly pictures. More importantly, I have learned a lot about how to go about finding the people that would like to use/have the silly things that I draw.

Having someone ask you to come up with something specific/that works - is a real reality check - I tell you! I really, really admire people that do this for a living!

None the less, I would never want to subject myself to the selling skills of a gallery representative - I would rather make/mess up my own fate with what the things I do...

Steve Newport, who you mentioned, is unbelievable skilled. He is just a kid (Sorry, Steve - you will ALWAYS be a kid to me - EVEN when you have kids of your own... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif) but he will develope skills that people will pay for - I'm sure. Will his creations hang in galleries and museums - probaly not - but will he care when he drives his Ferrari up to one of his houses - I don't think so... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[shawnsat]

I am risking sounding like a pompous ass to most people here, but there are some with talent that might listen. I don't want to tout where I've been or what I've done (here it is if you want to see me put my money where my mouth is - http://www.sandsdesigns.com ) but I think I see a problem with Painter users and computer users in general. Just because your latest program has an image hose that paints trees, doesn't make you a landscape artist. Please people, use these new tools the way no one would expect, we can all spray the nozzel randomly on the canvas! And we all have! We just don't all post it as our latest fine art! I don't mean to degrade or desrespect anyone, I just want to see that we can (and I know we can) do better than the paint, the pencil, the software; whatever we choose as a tool. The use of a good tool marks a good artist, but it doesn't make him or her an artist!!!
SS

shawnsat
http://www.sandsdesigns.com
shawnsat@comcast.net

[Ross Macintosh]

I'm not a student of art history but I know there has been considerable debate on was is and is not art. The dada movement with its famous artist-signed common urinal was a significant statement that "it is art if I say it is". That sentiment was later reinforced by Piero Manzoni in 1961 when he canned his own doodoo. Here is a can here. If I'm not mistaken Piero produced 90 cans and gave them to his friends at a dinner party. The artsy gift received lots of media attention adding to the debate on art.

You can find another pic and more info here. I imagine if you had one of his cans you could probably retire on the proceeds of selling it! Piero also signed human models thereby transforming them into signed sculptural artworks. I wonder if he used a permanent marker??

Regards, Ross

PS - Have much fun or,if you prefer, deep anguish creating. And please keep sharing it with others. They might think it is crap - it might even be crap! It doesn't matter. Just doo it!

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

[RAMWolff44]

All good points!! I just happen to believe that "suffering" (as Risto put it http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif ) gives me more satisfaction than taking short cuts.

As I said, in XaraX I sure do love my drop shadows, bevels and other effects (RealDraw-Pro with it's 3D lights and mump maps) but when it gets down to the nitty gritty I go all the way "from the ground up" and I find it fun and adventurous as well as satisfying.

If someone uses a nozzle/stamp/what ever to help create an image that causes an emotional responce in the viewer then more power to them but wouldn't it be better to create your own and use them to your hearts content?? It's all yours and if you share with the community and see it in someone elses work then you know it's appreciated and all the hard work producing it is even more satisfying!! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Steve Newport started a thread over at Pixelparity a little while back and I FINALLY found the darned thing. It's a pretty good read if your interested: *discussion* Digital Arts As I stated in my contribution to that thread, I totally understood his extreme disapointment but at the same time I know that traditional art is what's mostly accepted. If the serious digital artist is to make the art industry accept this medium as valid then to me and my work it's got to be all me or why bother. For fun web interfaces and buttons and other vector stuff I usually use drop shadows (which I could easily create myself but I don't) or a bevel (which I could build myself as well but I don't) but when it comes to the use of the object brushes in XaraX I usually steer clear of them unless I created it myself, then of course I will use it but actually I forget to use stuff like that most of the time anyway!! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

In the end it comes down to: "Each to their own". Be creative using what's available or be creative working from the ground up. I prefer the latter for most of my work!! Nuff' said! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Richard http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.ramwolffsworld.com//Publi..._Prowl_sig.gif

http://www.ramwolffsworld.com/RAMWolffsWorld

[This message was edited by RAMWolff on March 18, 2004 at 17:58.]