2D and 3D. The difference in the artist's eye

[Gary David Bouton]

Hi all--

I've been reqading more than one comment that 3D program users also use XARA...and occasionally frown upon this excellent vector drawing program because it does not have enough 3D features.

I'm personally against a program that tries to be all things to all walks of artistic expressions...look at the shape CorelDRAW and Deneba Canvas are in.

I'd like to share with you an unfinished piece that was done entirely in XARA X. Does it have a lot of 3D properties? I hope so! After you tinker with reflections for a while in a rendering program, you begin to get a feel for where reflections should go. And perspective for primitives can easily be imported and traced in XARA.

I do not think it is an innate talent...that some 3D users will excel more quickly than others...geez, Ron Pfister can model circles around me! But it's how you see and interpret things, and XARA X allows you to change the colors of everything and scale an image to any resolution for output.

I gues I'm just trying to say that there are the right tools and the wrong tools for artistic expression. The 3D learning curve is not painless, but the returns are photorealism if you do it right.

And by the way, there was a question on the board about XARA X exporting to DXF. Um, there's two kinds of DXF....3D lattices, and flat vector profiles. XARA excels at flat exports that you can then extrude, sweep, and so on.

Regards,
Gary David Bouton

Gary David Bouton
www.boutons.com
Gary@GaryWorld.com
Visit a really large gallery at www.GaryWorld.com!

[Mark (theKeeper)]

Hey Gary,

Very cool image there. Great concept.
So... you rendered & imported the reference images and then recreated them using Xara's tools... is that correct?
That's a great idea.

You just know that some of the Xara clan would not take to that methodology with open arms... the reason (so i've read) is because you didn't conceptualize/create everything from scratch just within Xara. At least, that's the impression i got from reading some of those threads about 3D apps.

I too have left some very similar statements on the Xara board, concerning the same subject matter you just spoke of here; especially the comment about using a 3D program to "learn" about light'n'shadow casts, reflections, perspectives, etc..

I hope the hard-core vector artists over there will loosen up just a tad and at least try a 3D program once; it can only help them.

Onward'n'Upward!
Mark...

[Gary David Bouton]

Hi Mark--

I used a few primitives to do the XARA piece. I used a no-longer available killer 3D program called Extreme 3D (probably the XARA of 3D) to make building blocks and then cast a perspective on the composition.

I traced about a half dozen lines from the rendering, but the rest was organically-driven (ie.-I actually drew the piece...but then again I've been an artist since I was 5 and I'm 48 now and no time off for good behaviour!<g>)

Phil Tippet at ILM said once that naturally born artists are the ones that take the most advantage of new technology. Phil was (and is) a stop-motion guru, but for Jurassic Park, he used CG.

BUT...and here I'm waxing philosophical, self-definition leads to self-limitation. So WHAT if I did some sculpting and then some tracing to arrive at the piece?

Consider this: the reverse process has been in use among artists for centuries: artists find something 3D (a sculpture, a person, fruit), and then paint it. Did Rembrant "cheat"?

Tracing is not cheating. Anyone in advertising or art school will tell you that tracing is a refinement process.

Now, I was one of the first folks to adopt CorelXARA 5 years ago, and I'm not part of any "clan" besides my friendship with Gary Priester and Daniel-Will Harris. If you mean a "XARA purist" or a XARA "snob", more's the pity for them, because they understand technology, but not art.

Here's another CHEATING, NON-PURIST, TRACING that became what I believe to be an honest expression of my feelings and moods. Let a XARA snob even *try* to capture the same look or content.

Best Regards,
Gary David Bouton

Gary David Bouton
www.boutons.com
Gary@GaryWorld.com
Visit a really large gallery at www.GaryWorld.com!

[randyrives]

What amazes me is the number of people that are so loyal to a computer program that they think that using any other program to enhance your image is treason.

You can see post on message boards all over the net saying, "Hey! look what I done and I did it all in package A. See you do not need any other package! Package A can do it all!" Truth be told if they had used both Package A and Package B, they could have finished the project in 1/3rd the time.

I am not an artist. I have never had any training whatsoever, but to me it seems it is the finish product we are all striving to obtain, not the vehicle we used to get there.

--Randy

[Big Frank]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am not an artist. I have never had any training whatsoever, but to me it seems it is the finish product we are all striving to obtain, not the vehicle we used to get there.

--Randy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, Randy, but then for some in the Xara forum the journey's as important as the destination.

I take yours and Gary's view, which is why I use both 2 and 3D apps to achieve the desired result.

--
Big Frank was

[Mark (theKeeper)]

Ditto on the "views" boyz. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Mark...

[michelle]

Hi Gary! It's been a long time! I'm happy to hear you're finally getting to write a book on Xara. I can't wait to see it - any idea on a release date? I've got to tell you, your Photoshop 6 book is a goldmine of information. It's almost always open on my desk. Unfortunately, I'll be putting Photoshop & Xara aside for awhile as I embark on yet another Painter beta cycle. My fingers and toes are crossed for this one. Anyway, the reason for my post is to ask you to elaborate on your Extreme 3D comment. I happen to have it, but I haven't used it in a loooong time. I would like to start tinkering in 3D again and wondered if I should start with Extreme 3D? Why do you like it? Do you have any suggestions for other programs I should look into? I'm not ready to pop for Lightwave or something that costs a ton...

Thanks! Have a great week!
Michelle Lill

[Erik Heyninck]

Can you imagine a painter who uses a double zero kolinsky sabre brush to paint out the fine details in his painting, and who uses the same brush to fill a square of some 10inch? I don't see why he should do that.
Use the appropriate tool for every job. My idea. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

If you don't work against time, time often works for you.

[Conen]

I am noobie so please be patient [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

How did you get the nice flowing lines? I use Adobe Photoshop and its very hard (plus very time consumming) to get a nice free flowing curves and such. I am going to take a look at other programs and such [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Do you all use a mouse, a touch pad etc..?
Does Xara have optional plugins like Adobe that must be bought seperatly? I am looking for a great graphic program withing in proce range of about $1000 (including plugins)
The program would need be be a windows program.

Any suggestions?

I love this website [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] thanks again for the info [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Conen

[Conen]

Well I downloaded Xara X and I think its the best [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I also answered my questions above [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


Conen