because I can't paint

[Thelonious]

Three logos. done in Painter (except for the paths, only because Painter's beziers are so weird)

T

[Thelonious]

Three logos. done in Painter (except for the paths, only because Painter's beziers are so weird)

T

[athena]

Thelonious,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>only because Painter's beziers are so weird)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ain't that the truth,?

I find the painter vector tools completely counter intutitive to anything I've ever done in vector programs.

I don't particularly appreciate having to relearn how to use bezier tools just to stay a painter purist . . so I don't [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I do my vector work in Xara or Corel.

for some reason, i particularly like the middle version although each of the 3 has its own appeal.

Athena

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Thelonious]

Counterintuitive? there's your typical british understatement.

When you make a second point then hover over it, it gives you the corner point symbol, that seems OK. So you draw your handle but when you lift your pen the handle becomes invisible. I defy anyone to come up with a logical explanation for this. It seems nothing more than a cruel joke. Not unlike the Vis Mask...and the scripts that don't work....

Yes it is very annoying to have to use a tool that is in Painter but doesn't work. Seeing all this stuff in front of me on Painter's menus and tool palette is a constant reminder how many pointless things abound.

Painter is like a real world art shop with aisles of paint and paper but drawers full of blunt scissors, empty matchboxes, and lots of rusty bent bits and pieces of stuff. And one of those really useful technical instruments that has an O ring missing.

Thelonious

[gmotto]

Mr. Hink,
I could hardly agree more regarding some of the pointless parts of Painter.
As to the Art Shops, don't you love it when they consistantly have 3 of the 4 things you need.

Greg.

[Jinny Brown]

Hi,

"When you make a second point then hover over it, it gives you the corner point symbol, that seems OK. So you draw your handle but when you lift your pen the handle becomes invisible. I defy anyone to come up with a logical explanation for this. It seems nothing more than a cruel joke. Not unlike the Vis Mask...and the scripts that don't work...."

It disappears until you click with the Pen tool again to create another anchor point. Then you'll see that control handle again. It's length and angle help to determine the curve between the second point and the third point. For instance, if you do the following, you'll see how that "disappearing" control handle actually works:

1. In the upper right corner of the image window, click the Grid icon.

2. Click the Pen tool.

3. Click at an intersection of the Grid lines to create anchor point 1.

4. Move your stylus down to the left at a 45 degree angle one inch lower than anchor point 1 then click again at that intersection of the Grid lines to create anchor point 2.

5. Click anchor point 2 and drag straight down (not at an angle this time) one inch. You'll see a "ghost control handle" and when you lift your stylus, it disappears.

6. Click again with the Pen tool to create anchor point 3, this time one inch directly below anchor point 1. Now the "ghost control handle" is visible and you can see that its position and length have caused the line between anchor point 2 and anchor point 3 to be curved.

http://www.pixelalley.com/painterfor...rol-handle.jpg

If there are other specific things about the Pen tool, creating and editing bezier curves (Shapes) that anyone wants to learn about, I'd be happy to help if I can. I've used the Pen tool and Shape editing tools a lot and find them easy and very controllable now, though I admit to struggling with them in the beginning. It was especially frustrating figuring out how to select the Shape without selecting all of the anchor points when it had no stroke and was invisible until selected. That one drove me nuts for a while. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Things don't seem so pointless once we learn how to use them (except for features like Scripts which are still a pain in the derriere for me).

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
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[Thelonious]

Thanks for your reply Jinny but you seem to have missed my point.

I don't have any problem using bezier curves I find them easy and fun. It's just... well...you know I just like to see what I'm doing. I know it's crazy but I'm a bit old fashioned like that.

You'll probably laugh at this but I actually keep my eyes open while crossing busy roads, I know what you're thinking.."that's really boring, why don't I just listen out for the cars.."

I don't know what it is, I've just got this thing about eyes and seeing and stuff. Imagine if after painting a stroke that stroke disappeared and only reappeared when you started your next stroke.

I know the disappearing bezier is still there and it still works I just want to know why the (expletive deleted) I'm not allowed to see it.

Thassall.

thelonious

[athena]

by now, August 8th 2001, vector programs have sort of built up certain social conventions. Things that a vector user expects when they click a point or a series of points. Things that work in MOST other vector applications.

and busy vector users don't particularly feel cheerful having to re-learn a pattern of working especially when their favorite vector program does fabulous work.

It's foolish for anyone to suspect that Corel Painter developers are mind readers and know instantaneously when something they have written causes a user to want to fling his or her tablet at the screen. (of course both of those are expensive pieces of equipment so it would be even more foolish to follow that impulse [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ) So I thought I'd take a brief moment to join Thelonious in complaining about the vector tools.

The vector user in me wants to just scream at Painter Developers "yes i know how to use vector tools, do you people know how to build them?" from the evidence I've seen, the answer is no they don't. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I say that only because the Painter vector tools do not use the conventions that I have learned in full blown vector applications. and it seems as if the Painter developers would be most pleased if I learned this obscure dialect of Vector tools. Most of the time, I don't have the time or inclination to try to pick up on this.

Yes things do work well if you take the time to learn their conventions. There's a whole host of things that work better if you try to learn their secrets, the microwave oven, the car stereo, the VCR . . . but do engineers have to persist in making things difficult for the user to master? Do they have to make it seem so obtuse? I'm sure you were standing on your head two or three times trying to get the Painter vector tools learned. I think you shouldn't have had to struggle so much to learn how to get it to work.

I admire that you stuck to it. But that was how you chose to spend your time [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]. And now maybe you're saving hours and hours of time by not having to start up your formerly favorite vector program [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] just to get a vector shape in painter. (Jin, I hope you're giggling as you're reading this because I am giggling at my own sillines) But I really do appreciate your efforts to illuminate us on the sinister intricacies of Vector tools in Painter. I haven't re-visited those tools in a while. I may try hitting my head against that wall again and maybe something will sink in.

I normally just accept Painter as a wonderful natural media program and don't hold a grudge against it for not being my vector darling. The way I see it, it would be like holding a grudge against a banana for not looking feeling and tasting like an apple. The two hold different nutrients and serve different purposes.

But thank you again for offering to help us with the Paitner vector tools. It is very brave of you.

Cheerfully,

Athena

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

ps: just needed to vent about the vector tools. and yes you are right the goal of the forum is to find answers [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] not a list of complaints. . but sometimes you can't get to the answer without having the complaint or question first

[Thelonious]

Scene: Think tank room at Metacreations.

Lackey programmer: Well as you can see John we've got the bezier part up and running and it's looking pretty good.

John Derry: (for it is he) But it looks like everyone else's beziers, goddammit this is Painter, we do things differently, make it do something weird or you're off this project.

Lackey programmer: there isn't much you can do to a bezier, John. Apart from making the handles disappear after you draw them, and we couldn't have that, that would just be too ridiculous even for painter.

John Derry: Do it.

Lackey Programmer: John you can't be serious, why don't we just make the scripts go wacky when they get near the end?

John Derry: Now you're talking, do that too.

etc....


T

[Jinny Brown]

Sorry folks, but I've had a belly full of complaints lately. I'm not chuckling, Athena. Sorry about that too.

It would (and did take me) less time to learn how to handle Painter's Pen tool/bezier curves than it did to read the problem (that's what I actually thought it was, not just an empty complaint), write the tutorial and do the little drawing, upload it to my website, then post it here, then read through another couple of complaining messages (added to at least a dozen more I've read today).

I first learned how to use the Pen tool/bezier curves in Illustrator and found the switch to Painter not unduly difficult. But then that's me, not everyone. What I mentioned that drove me nuts in my earlier message (trying to select a Shape without selecting all of its points when the Shape had no stroke) took less than a half hour to figure out (and that's a bit long, in my book).

No, it's not brave of me to try to help out. It is plain stupid sometimes and a big waste of my time.

Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
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