hello Jinny,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> read through another couple of complaining messages (added to at least a dozen more I've read today). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's tough when you get lambasted for stuff that isn't even your fault. (and arguably you have no control over)

please don't take it personally. we all have those days where we get blamed just for breathing air.

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

but look. some messages are simply valid user complaints. if a user considers herself good at deciphering graphics programs and finds a feature that requires more than the usual research . . .I think that is a valid user complaint.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> just an empty complaint <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see any empty complaints here in this thread. the Painter user base is varied. The personalities are varied . . it is understandable that it is difficult to write a program that satisfies everyone. BUT that doesn't mean that the Painter developers shouldn't try to impress the most people that they can. and how will they possibly know anyone is dissatisfied with their vector tools if no one speaks up?

OK so your experience with Illustrator yields a very small jump to using the vector tools in Painter. Obviously, you're the kind of userbase that Painter was written for. But that doesn't negate the needs of the others who are also adept at deciphering graphics programs and who also pay for Painter and are more comfortable with Corel Draw and Xara Vector tools. Corel Draw and Xara make vector easy. But . . . I say that because I grew up using them. Someone from the Illustrator background may very well throw up his or her hands in dismay at Corel Draw and Xara functionality. I feel really sorry that Painter could get caught between two user bases like that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> took less than a half hour to figure out (and that's a bit long, in my book).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree completely. the feature should not be so convoluted that you had to spend that much time deciphering it. You're no dunce and neither am I. Ideally, painter developers are listening in on discussions like this and not waiting to hear it 2nd hand from you or someone else. Ideally, they would have the nerve to sign in and speak up. I can't speak for Corel or Corel Painter developers. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] they probably wouldn't want me to anyway.

But I can't believe that I'm the only person in all of Painterdom who finds the vector tools in Painter to be convoluted. I also doubt that I'm the most stubborn Painter user who refuses to fiddle with something that doesn't fit the paradigm that I'm accustomed to. (I bet others feel the same way)

When you started working on figuring that particular issue out, did you think in advance that you would end up spending 30 min? I bet you thought 5 min tops. THAT is what I am faulting Painter for. . . .and you happen to be part of the user base they wrote that version for .... the Illustrator users. If I'm coming from a different paradigm you better believe it WILL take me longer than you to get to the same answer. . I shouldn't be expected to work that hard to make a feature work. and most certainly you shouldn't either.

The way I see it is, I have a way to work around the problems I have with the Painter vector tools so I use the resources I have to get the job done. and to the Painter developers, I say "come back to me when you have this feature straightened out. I don't have time to be pliable and re-learn a set of habits that work perfectly well for me in other vector apps"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No, it's not brave of me to try to help out. It is plain stupid sometimes and a big waste of my time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok. I'm sensing that you feel you have an un-appreciative audience here. Not so. Admittedly we have a number of visitors who silently watch. and rarely sign in to thank you for your time. But your work is very helpful. I still remember that time you did some tuts on the vector tools when we were talking about dab based brushes. Whether those were just what I needed or just enough to get me going in the right direction, in either case they were very valuable and very appreciated. And whether you enlightened Thelonious or myself to a bit of the painter vector arcanum, is immaterial. Somewhere somewhen there is a user who will or has read that message and thinks,"aha! thank you, Jinny" whether they ever bother to log in and tell you that . . well that is something neither of us can control.

I confess, I have not tried your steps above yet. my last attempt at the vector tool still leaves a bitter taste in my mind. (this is not your fault) I do think that I remember what I was doing wrong all along. . I was double clicking to finish a shape. Why, on God's green earth did I do that? I don't know. somewhere, somewhen, that entered into my spatial memory as what you do to finish off a shape. I still need to research which program burned that habit into my synapses. I suspect an antiquated version of Corel DRAW (i've been using it since version 3). So maybe I'm still resenting Painter for having the sanity to only require one click to finish the shape. When I went back and tried finishing shapes in my most current versions of Corel DRAW and Xara for comparison, I think they accepted either one click or two . . . but I know that habit came from somewhere. It is just too peculiar a habit to have come from thin air.

So, hmmmm I'm not sure what we've resolved here. I do respect the time you put into your answers. I think it is important for all visitorsto realize that many well phrased responses take time to compose. Time that could be spent playing with the cats, laughing with your family, or cleaning the closet. And that right there is also a very important lesson.

Please forgive me for seeming uncaring.

Athena