SVG 1.0

[rgremill]

Egg, if your browser supported SVG and Xara exported SVG files, then you would simply make the SVG files accessible from your website.

[tonylondon]

I think the purpose of SVG is exactly what you say you want, Egg. With an open standard it should be possible to progress without the restrictions placed by Macromedias commercial interests...
Tony
PS I liked your open shape fills.
PPS if Jens hates it it is probably good...

[Sean Sedwards]

The Betamax vs VHS battle teaches us that the best product doesn't necessarily win. VHS outmarketed Betamax as Flash outmarketed the Xara plug-in. I don't foresee the demise of Flash anytime soon, but the dominance of Adobe will mean that SVG will at least survive. The fact that it can be created in ASCII counteracts its current limitations.

Regards - Sean

[jens g.r. benthien]

Egg,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Jens is quite correct. svg isn't going to save the world, but niether is anything in this forum! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. In this forum people **learn** something, they learn how to use a tool to make a living. Which leads to an economic process: income, taxes, infrastructure, residual income, investments... But SVG doesn't do anything. It's just a wannabe new standard in the heads of some lousy Adobe managers who want to gain a larger marketshare. Remember how they promoted their PDF format at the exhibitions like CeBIT, Comdex? 'The best format for the web'. Ha. Ha. Ha. So my question is: if it's such a good thing, why in this world is HTML still around?

SVG has lots of limitations. Oh, and someone mentioned it's a free standard? So is the flash format. But the flash format is tons more versatile: it can INTERACT with JavaScript, CGI, PERL - you name it. Can PDF do this? NO. Can SVG do it? NO.

It's funny to watch how people jump on a train that's doomed. A train that's not even assembled. Just because you did read some lines about SVG and the 'recommendet by the W3C' you don't have to jump on it.

A plug-in for X would be worth much more. JPEG 2000 will be a new standard, because it's backward compatibility - ALL browsers can display JPEG files. It's lossless if you want.

Still wanna go for SVG?

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://jens.highspeedweb.net

[roman]

Jens, your arguments are based on the lack of knowldedge of the subject.

Yo wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So is the flash format. But the flash format is tons more versatile: it can INTERACT with Javascript_, CGI, PERL - you name it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FLASH is interactive in FLASH. I've never heard that you can control it from browser using javascript. All I know is that it can use HTTP protocol. You can not make flash in text editor. It's not for free, and it's not plattform independent. Flash, PDf and such aren't directly supported in HTML standards they need a browser plugin to work.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Can PDF do this? NO. Can SVG do it? NO.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HTML can't be beaten as it simply is the text formating language which is fundamental to the web it's using simple commands TAGs to format the text. It simply cannot be beaten.

SVG is so-to-speak an additional set of accepted tags. Jens, you are flaming for no reason. I think there is no need to worry about what will happen whether SVG would or wouldn't be accepted. It won't harm this already quite chaotic web world.

Server side applications (PHP and maybe ASP also) can use PDF quite well too (e.g. for forms) , but this is not important.

Simply:

You won't use HTML for typography - you would use PDF

You won't use SVG for higlhy dynamic, interactive presentations with sound - you would use FLASH.

Still you would use HTML and SVG together for page formatting and you won't need to buy FLASH and PDF makers to produce more bandwidth consuming Flash and PDF documents.

[rgremill]

jens, it is apparent you have never even downloaded the SVG plugin from Adobe and don't know anything about the technology you are bashing.

Here's the Adobe description of SVG

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What is SVG?
Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) is a new graphics file format and Web development language based on XML. SVG enables Web developers and designers to create dynamically generated, high-quality graphics from real-time data with precise structural and visual control.
With this powerful new technology, SVG developers can create a new generation of Web applications based on data-driven, interactive, and personalized graphics.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's another description of SVG from Adobe which says you can manipulate it with Javascript, JAVA, etc....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>• Interactive graphics
Create Web-based applications, tools or sophisticated user interfaces with common Web scripting and programming languages such as JavaScript, Java, and Microsoft Visual Basic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[lucx]

SVG can’t interact with Javascript? Such heresy! Action Script is to Flash as Javascript is to SVG. Since SVG is a text based language, it’s a lot easier to create server-side and client-side dynamic content (ie. graphs that automatically change accorinding to outside data).

As quoted by someone on another board:
" Macromedia requires you sign a license to see their SWF spec (and FLA can’t be licensed as far as I know.) Also, I believe that they have only released a SWF 4 spec not SWF 5.�

To the best of my knowledge, Action Script is not an open spec.

Some versions of Mozilla (aka Netscape6) can natively display SVG (I know, Netscape6 :ewww, gross, gag). But if you don’t like Adobe’s plugin or want another alternative, you can get it here:
http://www.croczilla.com/svg/index.html

And unfortunately, proprietary extensions are already creeping into SVG. Adobe’s plugin supports MP3 sound which is not part of the official spec.

[Thatch]

Dmagician,

Yes you can directly effect Flash from JavaScript and VB script. I do it regularly. From passing variables back and forth to initiating movie clips to controling the timeline. Usually all of this is done from information embedded directly into a streaming media format and passed from one to the other as it streams. Fun stuff.

Anywho, as to the discussion at hand... I have no opinion as I can't really use anything until its available to over 60% of the users (usually more like 80%). I'll have to make do with Flash for now until I can dynamically draw graphics client side as well (truth be told I do that right now with Flash too but it would be easier to implement in SVG)

J