A partial answer to AJ

[Peter Clifton]

AJ

Please see attached an image, done in CorelDRAW V7

The fill and transparency tools are often under utilised in Draw.

Fills and transparencies can contain bitmaps and vectors.

Using these it is possible to simulate a lot of Xara's effects such as elliptical fills and transparencies.

For cutout effects, I export masks created in Photo-Paint as paths and import them into Draw, to create vector cutout shapes for bitmaps, this gives me all the speed/control I require (possible since Draw/Paint V9)

The reason why a lot of Xara's effects export as bitmaps is because that is what the finished effects are, the under lying structure of each object may be a vector but the rendered results are bitmaps. This is true of all the advanced effects like bevels and object feathering.

The only way to get effects from Xara into CorelDRAW as vectors is for Corel to adopt a rendering engine as powerful as Xara's, whilst on the surface this may seem a good idea, you then have the problems of exporting the effects to other packages other than bitmaps.

Draw sticks to its vector roots as much as possible, certain effects like drop shadow and gradient transparency have to be rendered as bitmaps when output, and you only have to look in the Corel newsgroups to see how many problems this causes to some printers if you don't first convert drop shadows to bitmaps and then sometimes alter the transparency mode blending.

I'm not too sure about the status of mixed mode effects, it might be possible in Draw, but I don't know enough about how Xara does it, it might be internally calculating a bitmap for on screen / printer rasterization or the might be true vector objects when exported, I haven't investigated too deeply.

I am very happy for Xara to carve out its own niche, it has superior artistic creation tools no question, but Draw is a true Graphics processor, it has automation facilities to die for can read and write to as many graphics formats with as much compatibility as I require.

Peter

P.S. I own a copy of Xara X

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt

[Doug-O]

Peter,

I agree completly with your post. I also have used CorelDRAW for a long time, however I do use Xara X and several other applications to "get the job done". Nice to hear a voice of reason once in awhile.

Doug-O

[Peter Clifton]

AJ

Ok something we agree on [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Better interoperability between Draw and Photo-Paint.

No arguements there, a vector layer for Photo Paint would be a great start.

Heck just the ability to have Draw objects come in as separate rendered bitmap objects would be a major improvement.

But I'm with you on having a vector stay a vector up until the time it is saved to a bitmap only format like TIFF, at least for simple shapes and text.

Overall bitmap distortion within Draw should also be a possibility without radically altering the way it works.

I think, but don't know, that symbols are a more flexible version of Draw 10's smart shapes, perhaps this feature will be advanced in the new version of Draw.

Yes, to my mind these are good suggestions (but as I said before I am only a user, all be it a long time one and may be totally wrong)

Regarding vector plug-ins, that is tricky, unlike bitmap programs where it easy to extract and manipulate the bitmap data from the application as long as basic rules are followed, I don't think it will be so easy to do the same for vectors and their associated properties, at least not until XML is firmly established.

Remember whilst any bitmap editor can alter a pixel, vectors are handled and stored and rendered uniquely by each application, and features may not translate or be available.

Writing plugins for Illustrator is a difficult task, much more so than for Photoshop. I don't know this fact personally but have it on very good authority. Also just look at the ratio of Photoshop plugins to Illustrator plugins.


Unlike any other major drawing application, Draw and Photo-Paint's drawing engines are now practically wide open, it is much easier to program for using Visual Basic, Delphi or C, or internally using VBA. I'm not even a programmer yet I manage to knock up scripts when the need arises.

CorelDRAW/Paint has all the external access required already for programmers, more so than any other application, if programmers don't want to adapt their code then not much is going to change their minds.

HTH

Peter

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt

[acliffor]

Peter,

Your wife is HOT!!

hehe,

Cliff

Cliff

[Doug-O]

If you have problems following Peter's instructions on adding a custom fill (I did) in CorelDRAW check out the help files. I've included two in this post. The help files will also tell you how to remove pattern fills from your system.

[Peter Clifton]

AJ

Firstly apologies to everyone, I appear to have created yet another epistle so please feel free to ignore it.

This reply took a little longer because it covers a lot of ground most of it irrelevant to the original post.

I am not saying your ideas for improvement to CorelDRAW are incorrect but let us look at the history of the two products in some detail from my subjective point of view.

Around the time of CorelDRAW 4, Xara first appeared and it was scary to both Corel and its users.

The benchmark drawing back then (I still have copy) was SNOWBARN.CDR, on typical hardware this drawing could take a minute to render in Draw, it was full of complex blends.

As I recall, Xara released a viewer demo or save disabled version of Xara 1.0 on cover disks in the UK that allowed you do look at and import Draw files, this drawing rendered in something under 10 seconds, I think six, on the same hardware and it anti-aliased it so it looked better.

Add to this the transparency, interactive tools, polygons and the ability to apply almost all effects what ever the object (blended groups etc) and Corel had to do something.

So they purchased the marketing rights to Xara and relaunched the product as CorelXARA (Although after the initial launch did very little else, stifling it, no arguments there)

I assume that Corel also got to look at the code base as part of the deal.

A lot of Xara features started to appear in CorelDRAW from then on culminating with Draw 7 (6 had some Xara features), interactive tools, polygon etc and for this I am grateful, but the underlying way in which Corel reproduces the vectors for output did not change, there must be a reason for this. I do not believe it was simply because the speed advantage of coding in machine code and trying to plug this code into Draw, or converting Xara's core code to C being to difficult is entirely responsible, I think that deep down inside the packages, whilst both are working with vectors they have chosen different paths for press output regarding vector 'effects'.

It is my belief that most of the changes you have asked for, with the possible exception of mixing contour and blend effects would fundamentally alter the path Draw has chosen.

It may also be possible to have uniform transparency effects blend from start to end shape and still maintain vectors on press output.

Which path is correct, I do not know, I am happy for Draw and Xara to co-exist, each has its strengths and weaknesses.

The two graphics on my (primitave) web page were initially done in Xara X, for some reason I got brighter more effective colours and the bevel/transparency effects were easier to achieve, the melting bit was manually done in photo-paint.

Wanting to have one package, at this stage of the software developement game, do everything is admirable but not always achievable, if you check out the Corel newsgroups, most users there feel that Draw has enough twiddly bits already, what is really needed is a refinement to the existing code (e.g. bug fixes), better interoperability with Photo-Paint etc.

However as Xara exists to overcome Corel's shortcomings and visa versa why not simply use both. I may have nearly 11 years invested in learning and using Corel products, but if something better comes along that fulfills my daily working requirements then I will not hesitate to use it.

Currently I use Xara as a secondary product to the Draw suite, because of the type of work I do. I look at the job in hand, break it down, based on my knowledge of each products strengths and weaknesses and use which ever package produces the best results for each part of the job in the time alloted. Note: in my case just looking good is not always enough, sometimes the finished file size for exporting to a Publication package or PDF is just as important. Also important is changing the file at a later date, here Xara has the advantage as all of its effects are native, if you have to destroy a native object in Draw such as a blend group you loose the ability to easily re edit the drawing. Again I weigh up the pros and cons of each path chosen.

As for having to take the long approach to achieving a similar effect in Draw to that in Xara (where possible) at least you can do it and sometimes even automate the process, for most Draw users this is usually enough.

Regarding cropping bitmaps in Draw, did you know that every bitmap imported into draw has a default rectangular clipping path that is editable using the shape tool, simply add extra nodes to the clipping path and convert nodes to curves and pull/push/mould the path to the required shape.

Or place the bitmap on a locked layer, and manually created the clipping outline on an editable layer above it and powerclip the bitmap inside the shape.

I find it easier to convert mask to path in PhotoPaint and import the path into Draw and work with that, your mileage may vary.

Enough of my yakking, as I said at the start this is a subjective user's opinion and may have no basis whatsoever, in fact.

Peter

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt

[This message was edited by Peter Clifton on April 04, 2002 at 10:23.]

[AjIsCoool]

Thanks A lot Peter Clifton
for clarifying and replying for my whishs

I liked your approach

"Fills and transparencies can contain bitmaps and vectors.

Using these it is possible to simulate a lot of Xara's effects such as elliptical fills and transparencies. "

How? i tried but could not. sorry

"For cutout effects, I export masks created in Photo-Paint as paths and import them into Draw, to create vector cutout shapes for bitmaps, this gives me all the speed/control I require (possible since Draw/Paint V9)"

Strange !! if i can import to draw a path (vector)from PP then make the cutout, why not then doing directly from coreldraw itself

Bitmap Blend is wonderful, how?
and the Vectore transparency how? and is it still editable?

"I'm not too sure about the status of mixed mode effects, it might be possible in Draw"

Yes most can be done in Draw but for example

as shown in my whish list, if i blend 2 objects then i want to apply a contour to the blended object, in Draw i have to break the blend apart then group then apply the contour, In xara is blend then contour.

I hope you have got my point

And again Thanks for you FAST reply to me
and keep correcting me [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Peter Clifton]

To Aj and Xara

Since your post I've been investigating what stays as vectors and what doesn't.

Blends contours, and blends with contours stay as vectors when printed to PDF / Postscript in Xara.

It appears only bevels, feathering, transparency and drop shadow effects are rendered as bitmaps.

This is pretty much the same as CorelDRAW (where transparency and drop shadows are concerned), so in terms of format of output there is no difference.

I have some questions that remain unanswered, I have some PDFs I created with Draw 7 that have overlapping uniform transparencies that are vectors, yet on trying this recently, the overlaps are bitmaps, wierd, logic says that transparency effects get rendered as bitmaps when output to postscript/PDFs but these PDFs did not for some reason.

So part of my long post IS WRONG, Xara's strength is still in its rendering engine to screen the speed at which it does it and the flexibility of mixed mode effects.

In mitigation, when working with Xara X I am trying out things Draw cannot do, these usually involve the advanced vector effects. I incorrectly assumed (bad, bad) this was the case for all the elements of the drawing.

That plus the fact that you mentioned cutting and pasting produced a bitmap in Draw (something I do not do as rule).

If you want Xara's vectors (where possible) in CorelDRAW, then export the file as a 32bit CMX and import it into Draw. This works for uniform filled, blended shapes, with a contour effect, similar to one of your illustrated examples. The vectors will end up in Draw as individual objects, but this is nearly always the case when converting between any file formats and in this case CMX has no internal specification for blend or contour groups.

I still think that adding the initial mixed mode features you asked for to Draw with its current method of reproducing vectors on screen would not be possible (it would bring draw to its knees), Corel would have to implement an on screen rendering engine like Xara's.

So once again apologies to Xara X and AJ

Peter

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt

[Peter Clifton]

AJ

Ok

Blending a bitmap.

1. Import bitmap
2. Enable Snap to Objects
3. Stretch a rectangle top left to bottom right of the bitmap
4. delete the bitmap
5. Select the interative fill tool
6. Select pattern fill
7. Select bitmap from roll down menu on toolbar.
7. Edit the fill, load up the bitmap

Note: getting the bitmap to 100% scale fill seems a bit problematic in Draw V9, it seems to default to tile, if however you select texture fill from the roll down list prior to selecting pattern fill, the scale is 100% and the bitmap fill can be applied.

The filled rectangle can be blended as normal.

If you use a 62 step blended white inside to black outside shape, with a black rectangular border as a source vector file, you can apply it as a full colour pattern transparency to the bitmap in similar fasion.

Here is another trick, feathered editable objects in Draw with a little help from Photo-Paint

1. Create some text
2. Convert to 1 bit 600 dpi bitmap (feed in the value manually)
3. Right click on the bitmap and edit in photo-paint
4. Mask Magic wand a white area.
5. Menu Mask/Shape/Similar
6. Invert mask
7. Feather mask Inside/Rounded edges to desired amount
8. Save mask as bitmap file
9. Cancel editing and return to Draw
10. Undo, to convert bitmap text back to text
11. Apply bitmap transaprency with source bitmap as recently created mask.

HTH

Peter

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt

[Peter Clifton]

Cliff

Take a look at my picture in the user profile or on my web site.

Experience has shown me that I couldn't pull a muscle [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Only in my dreams..........

Peter

The style challenged Pete'sCrypt