food for your brain

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think that hitting someone in the head to make them see colors is absurd to say the least. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call it whatever you want - it is absurd, but it was the beginning of a new research on how a human brain 'generates' colors. Most scientific experiments started out rude but developed very fast to higher levels. So the electrical stimulation of today's research is a great progress if it will lead to give blind people a chance to understand colors. And on the long run find a way to give them eyesight.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My question was merely an example of sensing reality verses computer generated fantasy. Paintings, photographs and CG Images are visual stimuli lacking any tangible substance other than the material they are presented with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With one difference: photographs are a mirror of reality, as well as paintings. But cg images are only randomly placed bits and bytes - you push a few sliders to 'model' a world that doesn't have any parallel in nature or reality.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>While I believe that the criminal mind could use such a medium as a deception. I also believe that the average person that has the capacity to operate such a piece of equipment is not so gullible as to be lacking the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy. As for time and space, I would probably be better off not telling you what I think. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's your decision - this is a free forum ;-}.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When one or a few individuals publicly base a hypothetical argument on their concern for the masses, some elements of the argument could be viewed as a pretentious state of arrogance by those to which it references. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That why I used the Latin statement, showing that it is NOT my word. Instead, it's a historic statement, made some 2000 years ago.

I don't want to be or even appear to be arrogant. My goal is to ignite a new process in people, make them start thinking about themselves, who they are, where they are. The question why they are could exceed their capabilities, so let the philosophers in this world answer this question because they get paid for it.

Did you notice that people prefer to be destructive than to be creative? Just look at the slaughter games sold vs. the creative apps sold in this world.
How comes that the masses downloaded the chicken shooting game from a German company by the 100 millions instead of browsing galleries with cute chickens in funny situations? And then contribute their own creative input?

No, all those nobrainers want is BANG, BANG, BANG, kill, destroy, erase, hurt.

As I said - and this is what **I** say and think: the masses proved they are dumb because even if you give them a choice they run into the wrong direction.

Another proof: here in our village some people from other places accelerate their cars if a chicken (= synonym for hedgehog, squirrel, duck, mouse, marten) is walking on the road to hit it instead of slowing down to enjoy free running chicken, not imprisoned in cage batteries for nothing else but to produce cheap eggs.

I have seen Americans (sorry, I don't want to step onto your toes, don't take it personally, I think there are Europeans as well, but I've watched this in the US) arriving at a sightseeing point, jumping out of their car, pulling their camera up, taking a snapshot, rushing back into their car while the father said to the children: hurry, we can watch the pics at home, need to go to the next point now.

OK, this might be an exemption, but I've seen similar scenes in Europe as well.

So please don't tell me the masses have brains. Most of them don't even want to think. Does it hurt to think? I don't know.

Ross and Maya said it would be beautiful to have an application for everyone to be creative. Well, this application is here: the Internet. But instead of using the Internet in a creative way to research and learn, guess what happened: the masses click the links to porn sites (in Europe more than 70% of the search engine requests). And can you imagine that these dumb idiots grab their credit card to pay big bucks for the content? They do. But at the same time they complain if a newspaper or serious magazine charges micropayments (=cents!) for articles. The rest is glued to the impertinent dumb TV sets. Passive. Inactive - not interactive (they don't know what interaction really means). They escape into virtual, non existing worlds.

The masses ARE dumb. They prove it every day. Appears to me all they want to do is to f... off their non existent pinhead brains.

OK, the last paragraph might be a bit rude and simplyfied, but I am convined it hits the nail on it's head...

Maya,

you mentioned you would love to watch National Geographic documentation films. Well, it's my wish as well, but we are a minority. The entertainment industry prefers to bombard the masses with nobrainer stuff and boring advertising because a mass market is always profitable (in the brains of the big shot decision makers).

I can predict what would happen if they would set up a National Geographic TV channel: it would have to close down after a month because the audience is too small. A few thousands maybe.

It would be fantastic if they would offer a subscription to a monthly DVD or Video CD worldwide. But on the other hand I enjoy to read their magazines on the couch as well - far away from the 'confuser' ;-}

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's always a risk... daring to consider other viewpoints---those we find "agreeable" tend to be those we find agreement with. There is always risk you won't be agreed with, or that you didn't find just the right way to say and present your idea...but there is opportunity to learn other viewpoints, these can generate benefical ideas.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent point!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Something to think on---there has been few major technologies created that humanity didn't also find a way to use against itself...

Why not consider what new technology has in store for us beyond the hype? It can be useful.

Considering this for myself only, if it is arrogant to wonder how it may affect others, I want to know and understand more about what technology is bringing to my life, including computer use. Will it harm or hinder me or my creativity, or be of benefit?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The computer technology will be of benefit: without is we wouldn't have met and exchanged ideas!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I don't consider these things, how will I know what to choose or vote for, etc...? For just myself I wonder about balancing technology and nature...and I don't trust in big business to give the truth or have the best answers. It's interesting to hear what others think about it too, pro and con. I'm listening...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Follow your instinct and feelings, the 'feeling in your stomach'. And think about computer technology as a tool, nothing else. A tool to connect to other people at very remote places in this world. A tool to give your ideas a shape with a bezier curve. A tool to simplify your creative process. A tool to creatively play and 'fool around' with, taking the burden off your shoulder to use an eraser or a new canvas if you've made a mistake (though I don't think you need this option when I watch your pictures!). A tool to replace the old fashioned typewriter. A very valuable tool to perform researches without having to leave your home. But I would never connect my fridge to the Internet, or my TV set or a video or DVD recorder or our heating system or washing machine.

And when you use it as a tool turn it off or send it into sleep mode if you don't need it - like hanging a saw to the wall in the garage if you have finished your work.

For me it's a tool to work with in 3D space. It gives me a chance to turn around, twist and flip my product developments to check the 'look' from other viewpoints. Doing this with clay models would take ages. And I use it as a tool to order books, because we are living in a remote location with no good bookstore around here. And none that carries American or British titles (very important for the design pro!).

It's a tool to create letters and print them with a mail merge function to contact new and potential clients.

Oh yes, and because it's a tool for me, I don't have any games on any of the machines.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I understand the frustrations/concerns people speak of when they are bombarded with media reports on the state of things with technology's "detrimental effects". I am part of "the masses".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO. You are NOT part of the masses. If so, you wouldn't have contributed to the forum, you wouldn't have painted those wonderful pictures, you wouldn't have invested into a telescope to watch the universe.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"You can choose the red pill or the blue pill..." (The Matrix)
be careful...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Follow your heart and you'll pick the right one.

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Mike Bailey]

>"Call it whatever you want - it is absurd, but it was the beginning of a new research on how a human brain 'generates' colors. Most scientific experiments started out rude but developed very fast to higher levels. So the electrical stimulation of today's research is a great progress if it will lead to give blind people a chance to understand colors. And on the long run find a way to give them eyesight."

Is this the research required to create the un-reality machine that will control the mind of your children's children?

I do understand your concerns and also agree to some degree with you, at the same time I hope for the sake of the rest of the world that observations like yours are limited to this small place and not allowed to effect society as a whole. I believe there are a lot of people in the world that you are not taking into consideration. The internet statistics represent a very small minority, when you made your observations at the sightseeing point was it a majority of the people that were jumping in and out of their cars taking snap shots then rushing off? I doubt it. I have not lead an isolated existence, I make my own observations. I am also part of the masses. I enjoy nature, I exist with nature. I take my own sweet time with all the aspects of my life.
Am I stupid? you have stereotyped a large number of people within your statements?

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is this the research required to create the un-reality machine that will control the mind of your children's children? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know. Maybe it will lead to that point sooner or later. Let's hope they abandon it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do understand your concerns and also agree to some degree with you, at the same time I hope for the sake of the rest of the world that observations like yours are limited to this small place and not allowed to effect society as a whole. I believe there are a lot of people in the world that you are not taking into consideration. The internet statistics represent a very small minority, when you made your observations at the sightseeing point was it a majority of the people that were jumping in and out of their cars taking snap shots then rushing off? I doubt it. I have not lead an isolated existence, I make my own observations. I am also part of the masses. I enjoy nature, I exist with nature. I take my own sweet time with all the aspects of my life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said: it was one family, and I turned away back to the trails, unable to believe what I have seen. Certainly not a majority. But it shocked me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Am I stupid? you have stereotyped a large number of people within your statements?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't answer the first question, but **I** don't think you are stupid. If you are not sure, ask your shrink ;-}. Oh no, don't ask a shrink, ask your kids and they will tease you with an unexpected answer: yeah daddy, you are stupid ;-}

Don't get me wrong - it's the same problem as with advertising budgets: 50% are a waste, but nobody can define which 50%. So it'll be hard to define the group.

But be honest - I said don't take it personally - didn't you meet and experience some representatives of the 'masses' as well, thinking 'oh my God'?

Let me explain: 6 representatives of a certain ethnic group came into a Pizza Hut restaurant, ordered food and drinks and left the place in an awful mess. But I have some friends who belong to the same ethnic group who are different. They are like you and I, except for a different tone of their skin or a different language. But my friends told me: hey, don't panic, they (the gang in the Pizza Hut) are the 'cheap mass' of our group.

See what I mean? They didn't know these people, they couldn't specify exact numbers. But they know how to address the problem and how to handle it.

All of us belong to a 'mass' - a larger or smaller part of it. Try to understand 'mass' as in what the industry calls 'mass media' -> dumb TV soaps aired to reach a specific audience -> a mass, not a critical mass ;-}

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Crow Haven]

thank you jens and Mike for your replies and ideas! :-)

I, also, consider the computer to be a tool to use for art and communicating...I don't want everything else, appliances, etc...run by it either. But that's just me.

Well, I think I'll use MojoWorld---but perhaps not exactly as intended. Basically, in playing with it, I've discovered that I can't keep myself from modifying and changing the landscapes after they are designed...I always want to add other things, change colors and shapes with other aps, and so I guess I'll use it more like an alternate idea for some backgrounds in fantasy and sci-fi style art, which I have a bit of fun with once in a while just playing around.
It isn't enough for me just "as is", but I think it can be useful in ways, like other modeling aps, to help with angles and lighting possibilities and with different terrain structures. I think with using it in purely fantasy images I won't be causing anyone confusion.

Jens, I also have had extremely similar experiences to yours, regarding the total lack of compassion some individuals have towards wildlife---in my case I witnessed a car load of people actually try to run over an young gosling (goose) which was still just in downy feathers and had no ability to fly. It was trying to catch up to the parent goose, and they gunned the gas hard from a stoplight, on purpose, and actually hit the poor bird a glancing blow...fortunately, it was able to get up and headed back to the brush...but that cruelty I witnessed shocked me. I wondered how they treated people too. Another time, last summer, as a friend and I returned from town we found an terribly injured deer (from a car hit) laying in the middle of the road---still alive and in awful pain. It was the middle of the night on a lonely stretch of road, but neither of us could bear to leave her there even though it was dangerous for us to park the car by her to shield her from other traffic while we called and awaited the police officer's arrival. No one else had called it in. They just hit her and left. We tried to comfort her as best we could, she would lay her head in our hands...I can't forget the look in her eyes. I'm very glad we stayed with her.
Some will say, "it's just a deer, so what!"...
but it haunts me still how some can be so cruel, so indifferent to suffering. Where does that come from? I much prefer to think on the positive side of human nature and, thankfully, not everyone does these sorts of things, but it goes to show that the same behaviors seem to know no particular country's boundries. How common is it??? I hope it doesn't become more so... It is a shock to witness and quite disturbing...

Anyway--great discussion/ideas taking flight!

---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya

[gidgit]

haha, I know I did not support the OT subjects that kindly in a fairly recent post, but...I must say this is one of the most facinating threads I have viewed and subsequently reflected upon... soooo, count me in on this one...

Though computer generated scenes are wonderful, they are not meant to replace Nature in it's natural form, but rather, to stimulate thought towards such and in the case of scifi, beyond such constraints that are evident even with nature it's self...though this one gets kind of sketchy the further in you go, as the very thoughts generated in order to envision such are derivitives of nature it's self, embelished with pieces from other such visions also which have stemmed from such, in one capacity or another, which sort of explains the instant identity one feels when gazing upon such...

The exposure to the source is ultimately the key from which any and all visions are open to further exploration depending upon the other sources within the mind and the vividness of the imagination enabled from said mind...the neuro transmissions which we percieve as realities upon concience recognition of such, are based upon a collection of images that we have been trained to and/or trained ourselves to see, each in a manner from which our individual lifes experiences have allowed for us to place relative interpretation of such, thus defining how we see things...

or not...perhaps it's as much to do with the left side vs the right side...haha...

but...non the less, and getting back on thread here, computer generated images stimulate growth of potential...the potential of allowing others to take a peek into the realities of another's interpretations...be this for creating a scene to attach to a potential sale of a new product or design, or beyond, to envisioning a world belonging to a different order of being...

Without new horizons the old ones would not be... or would they....guess that depends whether or not it is the human determining such or even belonging to such [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Somehow me thinx this would not be viewed in the same manner of importance if we were discussing a world inhabited by all other lifeforms, yet void of human existance... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

So yea, anyhoo... scenery generating software is not in direct competition with nature, except when it is used to allow humans to envision the replacing of nature via a developement project...in which case, I am not taking sides...haha...but I would imagine that it would be cool to design such...both in using the software to those extents, as well to physically visit such place before and after inorder to bridge the gap between the two realities...

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Mike Bailey]

Hi jen's, I hope I can address your direct questions towards me in a positive way now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I agree, but we should define the word 'masses' first. 100.000 people are a mass in my opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This wasn't directed at me but I feel it is important to address this statement, a sample taken from 100,000 people would represent a good average.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> didn't you meet and experience some representatives of the 'masses' as well, thinking 'oh my God'?
Let me explain: 6 representatives of a certain ethnic group came into a Pizza Hut restaurant, ordered food and drinks and left the place in an awful mess. But I have some friends who belong to the same ethnic group who are different. They are like you and I, except for a different tone of their skin or a different language. But my friends told me: hey, don't panic, they (the gang in the Pizza Hut) are the 'cheap mass' of our group. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First question, No, I haven't met any representatives of the masses personally, Although I have attended various lectures by whom I would consider representatives of a major population.

6 gang members are just that, members of a gang. Yes, I have met gang members personally.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ]I have seen Americans (sorry, I don't want to step onto your toes, don't take it personally, I think there are Europeans as well, but I've watched this in the US) arriving at a sightseeing point, jumping out of their car, pulling their camera up, taking a snapshot, rushing back into their car while the father said to the children: hurry, we can watch the pics at home, need to go to the next point now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The letter "S" on the end of a noun designates it as plural, meaning more than one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As I said: it was one family, and I turned away back to the trails, unable to believe what I have seen. Certainly not a majority. But it shocked me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not what you said but it is more realistic and I can understand how this shocking experience might skew your observation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Did you notice that people prefer to be destructive than to be creative? Just look at the slaughter games sold vs. the creative apps sold in this world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some folks destroy everything they touch, it keeps the repairmen employed. I don't think that most people want to destroy tangible items they have collected over the years. The excitement of a video shooting game is more desirable to the youngsters verses a paint program because its got sound and action, The adolescent has a lot of energy to burn, shooting pixels on a CRT is one outlet for some of this energy and helps develop hand and eye coordination.
Art programs are more popular to a mature audience.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So please don't tell me the masses have brains. Most of them don't even want to think. Does it hurt to think? I don't know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to continue to disagree, every normal human has a brain. I don't think a brainless child would survive very long outside the womb.
As far as I can tell it doesn't hurts to think, a mental or physical disorder would impair the thinking process, some folks are just lazy and don't want to expend the required energy but I would have to say its is a minority.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But instead of using the Internet in a creative way to research and learn, guess what happened: the masses click the links to porn sites (in Europe more than 70% of the search engine requests). And can you imagine that these dumb idiots grab their credit card to pay big bucks for the content? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes there are those who exploit sexuality, it has been going on for centuries.
I don't use credit cards, I refuse to pay interest. Some people don't have that luxury because their budget exceeds there income.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't know. Maybe it will lead to that point sooner or later. Let's hope they abandon it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope the research continues to progress in a positive way that can help. The responsibility falls on the parents to teach their children how to use technology in a manner that will benefit their life as well as the lives of others.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you are not sure, ask your shrink <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a wonderful friendship with a very well respected Professor of Psychology at Florida International University, when she is stressed out I am usually the one she calls.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Try to understand 'mass' as in what the industry calls 'mass media' -> dumb TV soaps aired to reach a specific audience -> a mass, not a critical mass ;-} <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mass: Verb, crowds of people.
Noun, in this case: A large number, amount or extent.

As far as I can tell the soap opera's are directed at the unemployed housewife. There are not many unemployed housewives in this day and age. Myself I don't watch soap opera's, sitcom's, sports, etc...... it bores me to death.

I thank you for the entertainment.

Best wishes

[This message was edited by Mike Bailey on May 27, 2002 at 11:23.]

[s.winders]

jens life is incredible,just incredible [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


Mike I dont think people are dumb,I think someone who could be termed as dumb is un inspired,of low self esteem or self confidence,but if you give these things back to someone or the opportiunity to re gain then I think most people would de dumb themselves pretty quickly.


There are two amazing stories I have heard of where blind people are involved.

1 - A woman here in NZ was classed as totally blind.The doctors tests showed she was blind,an MRI showed why she was blind,anyway this woman had been blind X amount of years,she wakes up early one morning to see her dog sitting on the end of the bed.She had regained her sight,somehow,the doctors cannot work it out,all they know is she was legally blind and now she can see,they have no idea how or why.


2 - I saw a program on TV where a legally blind woman in the US somewhere can paint beautfiul pictures,not mosaics or abstracts,but figures in landscapes and architecture,but they know this woman is blind.The reporter asked this lady how she could paint such beautiful work when she was blind?,she replied I can feel the colors.If you looked at this ladies work there is no way you could ever tell this woman was blind,just no way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


Another great story is of a NZ guy was climbing with a friend on a mountain here Called Mt Cook,anyway these guys get into trouble and both got frost bite,one losst both his legs and the other part of a hand and another bit I cant remember at this time.Anyway the guys never got tpo the summit.Last week this man climbed to the top of Mt Cook with just a guide,only he did it with 2 artificial legs [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]



Life can be anything you want it to be,it is up to you what you do with that gift.There is no such thing as impossible as these brave people show us every day of the week in all the countries of the world.



My personal belief is that the Para Olympians should get platinum medals,not gold,because they have to step that bit higher to get to their goals [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


I see CG and CG apps as entertainment as nothing can ever replace nature.For me I enjoy the challenge of taking nature on and having a go at reproducing something remotely similar,but only as entertainment [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


We need a philosophy forum [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


Stu.

[Mike Bailey]

Amazing observations Stu. I played guitar with a blind fellow, He was amazing. His hearing was so well tuned he could tell you the notes of any composition as he listened to it.

Who's dumb? I only know people with varying levels of expertise in a vast array of subjects.

[s.winders]

He sounds like a special guy too Mike [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


It was the lady who could paint whilst being blind that blew me away.I am just annoyed I cant remember her name so you guys could see some of her work.I mean how does someone who cant see draw a figure anatomically correctly,then paint in every piece correctly?????....I mean how?...I suppose its just like our friend the bumble bee,you know the one scientists like to forget about [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


It makes you wonder what a child could achieve if they were never told,or had any inkling that there was nothing they could not do.Makes me wonder if we would have lots of little Leanordos and Beethovens and Einsteins runnng around the world.



Also is every child born brilliant and then some slowly become less intelectual because of their experiences? I think we are all brilliant given the right opportunities and circumstances.I also think we are all good people everyone of us until an experience or tragedy changes us.A personal example for me was I learnt to hate Mislosovec {sp} with a vengance for his arrogant disregard for life,and having a high regard for life myself I could not get my head around his actions.Anyway one day I went to visit the doctor as per usual,and I picked up a magazine,a Readers Digest and it had a story about Milosovec.What I found out was this mans Mother hung herself,his father also committed suicide,his Uncle committed suicide also and he had any number of unpleasant experiences as a child.Dont get me wrongg I am not condoning even smallest thing he did,but after reading that article I kind of understood,it was because he had learnt a systematic devaluation of human life for all of his,which also explains why he feels he has done nothing wrong,but I am getting way OT now and dont want to bring politics into the thread at all,but I do have to say I found the article enlightening,but at the same time despite his experiences I still feel the world needs to be protected from such mindsets.


Stu.