food for your brain

[jens g.r. benthien]

Long time ago - 20 years or more - I've watched a horrifying movie: humans who were supposed to die in a range between 1 and 3 months had to move to a certain hospital. They could decide to spend the rest of their days in the 'traditional' way or to enhance their last days with 'daydreams'.

All of them went for the daydreams, got cabled and connected to a hughe computer. So when they started thinking about traveling to see the mountains, the beaches, the rolling hills, deep sea the machine reacted in real time and presented the movies on a hughe display in their rooms - almost the size of one wall.

However, those movies have been computer generated scenes, far from reality, just beautiful scenery.

The people watched those movies addictively until they died and... well, let's stop here, the rest is even more cruel.

Today, 20 years later, I've visited the Vue d'Esprit site gallery at (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Gallery/Gallery.php?Index=0)

The first thought was: illusion or reality? Then I remembered the movie. Conclusion: today it **is** possible to put this scenario into action. The only thing that's still missing is the direct link between the computer and the brain.

A nightmare.

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[jens g.r. benthien]

Long time ago - 20 years or more - I've watched a horrifying movie: humans who were supposed to die in a range between 1 and 3 months had to move to a certain hospital. They could decide to spend the rest of their days in the 'traditional' way or to enhance their last days with 'daydreams'.

All of them went for the daydreams, got cabled and connected to a hughe computer. So when they started thinking about traveling to see the mountains, the beaches, the rolling hills, deep sea the machine reacted in real time and presented the movies on a hughe display in their rooms - almost the size of one wall.

However, those movies have been computer generated scenes, far from reality, just beautiful scenery.

The people watched those movies addictively until they died and... well, let's stop here, the rest is even more cruel.

Today, 20 years later, I've visited the Vue d'Esprit site gallery at (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Gallery/Gallery.php?Index=0)

The first thought was: illusion or reality? Then I remembered the movie. Conclusion: today it **is** possible to put this scenario into action. The only thing that's still missing is the direct link between the computer and the brain.

A nightmare.

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[gnurf]

Could the title of that movie perhaps be Soylent Green with Charlton Heston?

-Paul

[Ross Macintosh]

Forgetting the nightmare references - wouldn't it be great if someone developed a special computer program for doing 'art therapy'. Ideally it would have virtually no learning curve so it could be immediately accessible to even those without computer experience. It would allow users to create evocative images based on emotive input. A thought is, it could be like Mojoworld but with a special interface that would ask you questions about your feelings, memories etc. Based on analysis of your answers, unique images would be generated as visual expressions of the 'feelings'.

Having worked on the design of both prisons and psychiatric facilities I feel there is a need for ways for prisoners and patients to constructively express their feelings. I believe such a program could be great for practically any patient. It could also be great for kids (of all ages).

I suspect it would not be technically difficult to develop such a program provided a suitable existing program like Mojoworld were used as the foundation.

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

[Crow Haven]

as well, which could be done with such program's abilities. It's up to us to use them wisely...it is Pandora's Box, and now that it's opened we must make the most of it in positive ways.

I agree with jens in that none of this can, or should, ever replace nature...but realize, too, that people will continue to want more technology and nothing will stop that---there are so many tangible benefits that we want (I'm thinking in regards to health improvements as an example), there's no turning back. We live now at a cross-roads---we have the benefits of both nature and technology to enjoy... I hope that people will decide, in the long run, to appreciate nature and help to keep it all from vanishing under a tangle of concrete and human activity.
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya

[jens g.r. benthien]

Ross,

I agree with you. It could be fun, just for the sake of the fun itself and to give people the power to express themselves. Would I give it the label 'creativity'? I'm not sure.

Maya,

you are right: people should prefer to appreciate nature more than ever before. The humans can learn a lot from nature!

Don't get me wrong - the results of the Vue d'Esprit renderings are breathtaking as long as the audience can differentiate between fact and fiction, reality and illusion. If they can't - and the 'normal user' usually doesn't know it's an illusion - they will start to dream of this illusion, for example to go for a vacation to exactly that particular place. Only to discover that it doesn't exist. Imagine how frustrating this experience must be.

But what really scares me is the pure fact that more and more people try to develop their 'own' world, playing or acting like God, to execute the power they don't have in real life: control their own [artificial] environment, control the characters, control and command the artificial history and predictions for the future.

IMHO it's a very dangerous trend. Look at the politicians: they act as if they will live forever. They want to erect their own monuments and enjoy it for eternity. Look at the 'managers', the big shots: all they want is power. The power to manipulate other people. Example: Marketing and advertising. They 'develop' useless products and nonsense content, then they purchase ad space to convince the 'target groups' that they need i.e. a new coffee brand.

Hey, that's hilarious. Mankind did develop for millions of years without this bullshit of fake advantages and needs.

Today we laugh about Adolf Hitler who promised a 1000 year Reich. His Reich collapsed after a few years as we all know, despite his 'visions' of a brand new world (brave new world?). But today people celebrate the empty promises of some self promoted 'leaders', without thinking about the content...

Why do all the people have the desire to 'be in control' ? The tiny guy on the street translates - or better saying copies - this behavior, flicks the switch on his computer and starts developing his own world with artificial characters, landscapes, scenes. Why? I doubt that anyone of them ever climbed the mountains to enjoy an early morning sunrise and the spectacular view from the peak in the beautiful REAL world. If they would, they would know they can't control anything. That they won't need another coffee brand. Another plastic toy. And they would realize that there is more to create a world, something that would thrill all senses. The rocks they develop don't have a history, don't smell, don't reveal a fountain, the grass is static, the soothing wind is missing. No bird songs in the sky. It's a dead environment they develop.

In the world of illusions there is no interaction with our skin, our senses.

Don't get me wrong - technology **IS** great for all of us - IF we will use it to take advantage of it, but not to 'design' our own artificial world with it, which is terminated as soon as someone will pull the plug.

Look at Stu's beautiful dragon: it's an illusion for a tell tale story and everybody **knows** it. The purpose is obvious. Or my product developments. They are useful, real, tangible. In other words: this makes **sense**.

But to create a picture of a non existing place somewhere in the mountains doesn't make sense to me. Or did I miss something?

Or the development of a 'realistic' shooting game - does it make sense? Why in this world are so many people destructive? They put so much effort into the development to give it a 'real' look that I can't believe it. And millions of dumb idiots play the shooting games. Every day. And after they managed to erase a populations they start another application and develop a fake, yet beautiful world which THEY can control. Do they feel like God?

Hell, I wish I knew.

I know it's a philosophical approach, but I just wanted to start something else here. If you don't like it, let me know.

And if you have other points or opinions share them with me. And the other members.

Hey, just an idea: since most of you are living in beautiful countries with a nicer climate than in Germany, let your clock ring at 4:30 am to throw you out of your bed, leave the house and find a cosy place somewhere on your porch or in your garden and watch the sunrise. Take a deep breathe of the fresh, chilly morning air, touch the slightly wet grass, feel the sandy soil, smell the flowers and enjoy the sunrise. You'll be surprised how beautiful nature and reality are. And I think you might ask yourself how this can happen without a gazillion GHz CPU's, gigabytes of RAM, HDRI, 32 bit color depth, motion blur, texture plug-ins, morph sequences and the rest of all technology.

All the best and share your impressions you've got when you will have done it.

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[gnurf]

Jens, have you become a philosophical hippie? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Jens wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But to create a picture of a non existing place somewhere in the mountains doesn't make sense to me. Or did I miss something? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I believe you missed something! Creating a picture of a non-existing place can be called recreation. People did this before computers, with paint and brushes. And the reasons to create such a picture can be many. Personally I would create such a picture just to see if I can do it, or just to relax and doing something not related to work.

Also you can create pictures of places where you cannot go, ie making a picture of Pompeii before it was destroyed by the vulcano eruption. Then it would be the artists vision and imagination of that place, no matter if it was done with paint or CG. I don't know if it makes sense to you, but I believe it is recreation for the artist making the picture.

And while I am writing this posting, I came to think of one more reason to make photographic images (it doesn't have to be non-existing places in mountains). When I saw the picture of the gems done in Carrara 2 I was quite impressed and thought I would try it myself. My first attemps were everything but what I wanted. That got me to start investigating how diamonds are cut, read about refraction indexes. Earlier projects hav usually got me to read and learn about things, and the images are the result of what I have learned. A good simulation can proove you have understood what you have studied.

My appologies, I notice that my structure of the text is starting to get a bit 'unstructured'... You wrote about 'normal' people not seeing the differense between CG images and real images, and that they start dreaming of these 'fantasy' places (and eventually getting disappointed when they discover the places don't excist). I don't really agree with you. There are people who are never happy, and always go on complaining that if I had this or if I had that (money, house, living somewhere else etc etc) then everything would be so much better. Well, I would say that most of the times those people would not be happy if they got what they wanted, but would start wanting the next this or that to find happiness. And I would also say that they will never be happy until they start looking into themselves and start enjoying the small things in life. And those unhappy people should also find help before it all turns into a depression or something similar.

BTW, I and my wife recently bought a house with a garden. I don't get up at 4.30 am, but you can still enjoy the morning, grass and birds at 7 or 8 am [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] so I am with you on that point, Jens!

-Paul

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> have you become a philosophical hippie? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hm, I've always been that way. But maybe I turned to be a philosophical terrorist now? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Yes, you are right: re-creating an ancient plase makes a lot of sense. And of course you learn a lot when you try to model, like your diamond experiment. **IF** all people would approach it your way, I wouldn't worry at all.

But still - re-creating nature or a part of it must fail. It'll be nothing else but a helpless attempt to copy something that had billions of years to develop into a perfect state.

Well, don't let us discuss those unhappy people in this world - it would lead to nowhere because they don't even know that they **exist** ;-} Give them bread and games as the roman emperor used to say. Today it's the shooting game generation...

Congrats for your new home! I can imagine why you won't leave your house before 7 or 8 am - the gazillion mosquitos would start a never ending attack to get their breakfast ;-} But after sunrise it must be beautiful in the summer in Finland.

For re-creation I prefer to hike through nature instead of hacking the computer. A computer is just a tool to work with, but nothing to fool around with during leisure time (unless you are running Windows 95 and have to clean your machine during your leisure time to get it up and running again before the next project will hit your desk, rebooting, rebooting, rebooting...)

And now have a great weekend!

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Erik Heyninck]

Don't forget that accepting optical illusions is conditioned by education. Just take language. The moment daddy told you "this is a tree", you lost the ability to see what *is* and you started seeing with the mind. Another example: Aboriginals have no problem with the optical illusions we see as real, like lines bending etc...
Another remark why this proggie could never work: emotion cannot be analysed. Even the greatest reductionnist scientifically trained psycho guy stays on the safer side of instincts.
Emotion is too complex for the mind, and only the mind can analyse. Time also only exists in the mind as for emotion and instinct there is only now.
So stop the tyrant called mind and things stop being a nightmare. Imo it is sick when you have to rely on someone else to dream. Perhaps that's why there are so many insomniacs...

[gnurf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But still - re-creating nature or a part of it must fail. It'll be nothing else but a helpless attempt to copy something that had billions of years to develop into a perfect state. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I understand you correctly, you think it is no sense in creating and rendering a lanscape 'model' just because you do or can?!? Why not seeing it as a landscape painting? People do paint landscapes, even without real life models (=sitting out on a field painting what they see around them). Do these paintings make no sense too? And you could say the same thing about paintings - 'nothing but a helpless attempt to copy'.
The main difference here is that all people are not skilled painters (as well as all painters cannot use 3D computer applications). So while one do it with paint, brushes and canvas, other do it with computers. And I see it as recreation (the computer doesn't always have to be just a tool!), and I guess it doesn't have to make sense either in one way. I often doodle with pen and paper, and what I doodle doesn't make sense either I guess. But it feels good!
Also, doodling (I would say you can also 'doodle' realistic doodles) can let you see things from another points of views, which can get handy in work (instead of beginning from scratch with every new project).
And if I continue with the artistic view on the matter, it is a challenge for the artist to achieve a real life look in the picture, and it is (at least in my case) the procedure of creating that gives the satisfaction, and not always the result. And I also believe that the work of making a program that can simulate real life gives the people at e-on software (maker of Vue d'Esprit) satisfaction as well as seeing the work of other people using their software. So I don't think it is so much about having control and playing God.

The choise of re-creation distinguish between what one work with every day. And re-creation is as a result of that, the ability to do something that doesn't relate to work. In your case you go hiking, while I can see that a gardener who works outdoors most days can relax with a computer. Personally I work with computers every day, and often I don't even want to see a computer when I get home.

About our 'new' home, we bought it about 2 years ago (living in it for about a year and a half) and have been renovating since then (how's that for re-creation? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ). It's not until now we see any result (the interior looks like the interior of a house and the garden starts to look like a garden [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ). And yes, the summers are beautiful here in Finland (and the spring was also beautiful this year due exceptionally warm weather) and yes I have already been mosquito breakfast, lunch, snack and evening meal [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] . But I see the whole thing from the light view of point - it is not as bad in sothern Finland as it is in the northern part of the country (where the bugs are big as bird - at least that is what they say [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] )

-Paul