Fireworks??

[ivivi]

I build websites and have used only Xara for a few years now.
[After starting life as an architect then into marketing, I often think I would have spent the last 15 years as a graphic designer if Xara had been around when I hit computers. But learning and dealing with the cumbersome bloatware put me off -- it was like learning to fly a 747 so that you could draw a circle! But I digress...]
Xara and XX are great for graphics, making buttons, reducing image sizes and more.
It can make aniGIFs, though I find the interface still a bit un-intuitive. Anyway, movement on web pages is not my bag.
But a major concern and increasing problem is getting to terms with Java on sites.
I mean, one simply has to have good drop down menus now, and I'm sorry, but DHTML is not for me till everyone agrees on standards.
I just read a review on WebMonkey on Fireworks, and they say it provides an easy and masterful way of making drop down menus and hot-mapped bitmaps that work on all the major browsers.
So, X'ers -- I mean this is one forum where I trust the feedback -- does anyone use Fireworks 4, is it hype or as good as they say?
Is it worth learning and investing in and adding to one's toolbox?
All input appreciated.

BTW, the review is at http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/01/07/index1a.html

Thanks muchly in advance

Bill [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]


Help, I'm stuck on this paradise island!
www.kolanta.net

Stuck in a tropical island paradise!

[ivivi]

I build websites and have used only Xara for a few years now.
[After starting life as an architect then into marketing, I often think I would have spent the last 15 years as a graphic designer if Xara had been around when I hit computers. But learning and dealing with the cumbersome bloatware put me off -- it was like learning to fly a 747 so that you could draw a circle! But I digress...]
Xara and XX are great for graphics, making buttons, reducing image sizes and more.
It can make aniGIFs, though I find the interface still a bit un-intuitive. Anyway, movement on web pages is not my bag.
But a major concern and increasing problem is getting to terms with Java on sites.
I mean, one simply has to have good drop down menus now, and I'm sorry, but DHTML is not for me till everyone agrees on standards.
I just read a review on WebMonkey on Fireworks, and they say it provides an easy and masterful way of making drop down menus and hot-mapped bitmaps that work on all the major browsers.
So, X'ers -- I mean this is one forum where I trust the feedback -- does anyone use Fireworks 4, is it hype or as good as they say?
Is it worth learning and investing in and adding to one's toolbox?
All input appreciated.

BTW, the review is at http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/01/07/index1a.html

Thanks muchly in advance

Bill [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]


Help, I'm stuck on this paradise island!
www.kolanta.net

Stuck in a tropical island paradise!

[Oscar]

I use fireworks from version 2.
It is excellent for Web graphics , for example :
- splicing is a part of the project in separate web layer, not as last step as in many other software - so it is always editable
- intuitive layer work, easy way for creating roll-overs and menus
- good for any type of web graphics, whole page or just graphics parts
- very good export, down to the details - each object/splice can even have different export parameters such as dithering, number of colors, even file format
- ability to create animated gifs.
- export to html creates fully functional page with all the necessary scripts for roll-overs, menus etc.

On my computer it is very stable - however as any macromedia products it eats a lot of resources.
I can't run Adobe Go Live and Fireworks on the same time on W98 for example. Version 3.0 was less hungry. If you take out the menu creation then the diff between 4.0 and 3.0 is just cosmetic (like preview of objects in layer box etc..)
Anyway, it was build for creating graphics for web and it shines there.
I do most of the web design in fireworks, then load it and continue in GoLive (hate dreamweaver - always messed up my tables)

[jens g.r. benthien]

Fireworks? RAM hungry bloatware! If you've already a registered copy of X, don't waste your funds on the other stuff - it's not worth it. Slicing images? A breeze in X. Roll over buttons? Peanuts for X. And best of all, if you will use a Java menu applet, you will be far better off than compared to DHTML or XML, because these applets are displayed in Opera as well. Huh, you don't know Opera? It's the ultimate browser for web developers (http://www.operasoftware.com). If it doesn't display in Opera, it's bug infested. If it displays correctly in Opera, it will display on any browser.

I am developing the greatest sites, interactive sites, CD ROM's, kioks systems and broschures with X - no need for Fireworks or Dreamnobrainer or whatever it's called. Of course it requires some additional hand coding, but it's sleeker than anyting else.

You'll be much better if you invest the time for the learning curve of yet another shitty software into a perfection of the handling of X, believe me.

Just my 2 cents ;-}

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://jens.highspeedweb.net

[gwpriester]

Bill

Like all applications, Fireworks has it's good points, although at the moment I am hard pressed to think of any ;-)

Before Xara and Corel said adieu, the plan was to position Xara X in the same category as Fireworks (partially so as not to canabalize that bloatware product that I suspect you were referring to).

Xara has superior screen redraw and display. In fact I think Xara, of all the graphics products I have reviewed in the past two years, has the best anti-aliasing engine of all.

Xara does most of its effects live and on the object. Fireworks, like all Macromedia products, does most everything in dialogs and panels and toolbars, etc.

And have you tried to draw anything in Fireworks?

I think you already know the answer to your question.

My only question is can Fireworks work with Tai fonts :-)

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

beehive or bus melt

[Peter P.]

Xara X comparing to Fireworks... Why not just leave Fireworks be Fireworks and Xara X be Xara X and stop comparing these pieces of software, because it really doesn't make any sense. Because most of you are using Xara X, you can't say much positive about many other software. Comparing only the good points of Xara X with the same (worse) implementation in Fireworks, is closing you eyes for the really good things that Fireworks has to offer. Macromedia makes great products that are sold a lot and that's really not without a reason: their customers are mostly professionals and you expect professionals to make the right choices. It's about time that you Xara users get your head out that's stuck in the sand. Sorry, but with all respect for Xara X, it's a good product, but it comes nowhere near to the professional line of Adobe or Macromedia products.

[tad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but it comes nowhere near to the professional line of Adobe or Macromedia products.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Come on man. I've got friends who work for Adobe and friends who work for Macromedia. They don't think their products are as good as you seem to think. They do some heavy slamming.

Xara doesn't have to have a "line" to be great. It just IS great.

But you do have one good point : WE can ALL get along.
Regards,,(keep your head down)..Tad .. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[roman]

And I say it again .If you aren't good enough no software will help you to be better. You will just run out of "creative" - "effects" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

For anyone doubting the creative power of Xara X there is :Xara Gallery Xara might not be industry standard. I really don't care. It's my choice. I reccomend you to choose something fast as our life is too short to spend it on senseless dabates about our favourite software packages. I would preffer to see your creations Peter.

I think Xara X web export features (I don't know how it's with Fireworks) aren't that much of a value for web design developer/programmer. If you need total control you need GBE (good bitmap editor) with quality export & TE (Text Editor) any with a good syntax highlight. Dreamveawer is also useful from time to time. I use Xara to design pages, but I don't use it for cuts, nor I've chance to use it for javascript menus. I try not to make menus carved in stone = very hardly updatable.

My first and last page I done with Xara X (testing it's abilities) is my own company's page Studio Style since then I've decided not to use it as it's a lot work to reexport the graphics everytime you need to make changes. You keep adding nice design features more an more and end in a very hardly updatable design. This is not a good solution for dynamically generated pages. Everytime you make changes you have to reexport the whole page. It's just good for design work which won't be altered that much after export out from Xara. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[ivivi]

Well, there's some great input as usual.

Oscar is for it,
Jens is an XX Patriot (FANatic?),
Gary is cautious, humourous & diplomatic, but is talking graphics not webstuff as I hoped,
Peter is pragmatic and raises the well-established XX zealousness,
Tad responded to Peter's prickle with a smile,
and Dmagician's words of wisdom actually got close to my point.

Let's make the point of this thread a bit more clear.
I don't want another program for drawing or design, I'm looking for a simple easy way to
> do drop down menus
> slice, dice & hotspot graphics
I want good solid html & Java code out of a graphics like interface.

So, if there are any webmakers out there with suggestions based on experience please let me have them.

THANKS to all so far!

Bill

PS - Dmagician raised another interesting subject with his reference to GBE, but I think I'll put that in another thread.

Stuck in a tropical island paradise!

[bjwe]

if its drop down menus you want you could try Ulead Menu Applet.

For javascript rollover effects Gary did a great tutorial you can find here. For java imagemapping effects I did a guest tutorial you can find here along with the freeware java applet.

Brian