Help Pantone color matching to CMYK

Hello folks,

We are trying to convert PMS 021c to cmyk. The designer gave us files with 0/78/91/0 as the breakdown. It does not match. 0/78/91/0 is intended to match 021c on other products like mugs, plastic folders, and so on.

Is 021c out of the CMYK gamut?

Is the following a true statement true?
Pantone spot colors are intended to be printed as solid inks and not as mixed CMYK colors. Only about 50% of Pantone spot colors can be matched in CMYK. 25% of the colors will be close. And 25% are not even close.

Thanks for any thoughts or comments.

I believe the following statement you quoted is true (because I wrote it--some time ago). :)

I just looked in my Pantone swatchbook and I think that Orange 021C should be fairly easy to match in CMYK and should be well within the gamut. I just converted the Pantone color in Xara to CMYK and I get the values of 65% Magenta, 100% Yellow.

Illustrator CS-5.5 shows the CMYK percents for 021C as 51% Magenta 100% Yellow (which on my monitor looks a bit light)

78% Magenta 91% Yellow looks too deep an orange.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inhouse Printer

Hello folks,

We are trying to convert PMS 021c to cmyk. The designer gave us files with 0/78/91/0 as the breakdown. It does not match. 0/78/91/0 is intended to match 021c on other products like mugs, plastic folders, and so on.

Is 021c out of the CMYK gamut?

Is the following a true statement true?
Pantone spot colors are intended to be printed as solid inks and not as mixed CMYK colors. Only about 50% of Pantone spot colors can be matched in CMYK. 25% of the colors will be close. And 25% are not even close.

Thanks for any thoughts or comments.

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Yes, 021 C is out of all CMYK profile gamuts.

Depending upon the output intent, and here using a SWOP v2 profile, Pantone recommends 0,80,100,0. But I would run a sample using 0,66,90,0 and see if that gets you closer. Always judge the CMYK against the appropriate (coated/uncoated) Pantone swatch book, though.

Again, depending upon the output intent, I would say more than 50% of Pantone colors cannot be successfully be rendered in CMYK. The screen shot below shows the color in question surrounded by the swatch order of more. It is using the split view of the Pantone Color Manager software. The warning triangle on the right-hand half of a particular swatch means it cannot be successfully represented in CMYK. Here using the SWOP v2 profile.

Mike

Doesn't matter what on-screen looks like...

One can get quite an accurate RGB or HEX representation of nearly all the Pantone colors. Getting a translucent ink to come close to an opaque ink on paper is another story.

Mike

What do they say, "25% you can get close to a match and 25% you can't get a match". You could try another swatch with CMYK: C=0 M=73 Y=100 K=0 to see if that is any closer than Mike's although I would try Mike's first as that's what used as the standard conversion. I used PS to get the above value but unless you print the two together using the correct links. Also we had a trick in the newspaper when I worked there was to increase the sat. by duplicating the swatch shape and doing a "colour multiply" to get rid of washed out look. You may have to reduce the opacity very slightly when doing this trick but if you have a desktop CMYK laser and use your Pantone book you can view each of them alongside each other.

Mike - My comment about 50, 25 and 25 was based on a conversation with Pantone some years ago for a book I was writing on color. This may have changed over the years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

Mike - My comment about 50, 25 and 25 was based on a conversation with Pantone some years ago for a book I was writing on color. This may have changed over the years.

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I wasn't clear in the quick response to your post...which occurred when I was posting my first response.

Whether those percentages are accurate or not, I take them at face value. Good enough percentages for me. What one can match using CMYK to Pantone, when even possible, is the tonal composition. But it is still a different appearance. In the case of Pantone 021 C, and using the US SWOP v2 profile, one will not really get very close. While the Pantone numbers are high to me on the M and Y for the stated purpose ("mugs, plastic folders, and so on), it would be an appropriate set of values when printed on paper.

In the OP's post it is mentioned matching Pantone 021 C in order to "match 021c on other products like mugs, plastic folders, and so on." I have always used Pantone on those types of objects, especially when needing to match a corporation's use of Pantone from their paper-print usage of Pantones. If a business isn't using a particular Pantone on their business printing, then I would never show them a Pantone Solid swatch book in the first place. I would either use one of the Bridge books or another Pantone CMYK-based book. Takes the pain out of "matching" at that point. Then the burden is upon the place doing to printing to hold the color everyone is agreeing on.

Mike

I agree Mike about using Pantone spot colors when matching a color is absolutely critical.

But if your printing process is CMYK, or if you are trying to match a Pantone color in a print ad or brochure, and an additional color or colors is not an option, then you have to try to do your best.

What is frustrating is the differences between applications in Pantone to CMYK approximations. I gave two, one from Xara and one from Illustrator. Each is different.

I used to use TruMatch for matching Pantone colors as this way you are looking at what CMYK color comes closest.

Thanks for all of the comments. This has been very helpful.

Mike, I have Pantone Color Manager software but have not used it. This is a good reminder for me to take inventory of what tools I have and when to use them.