The right thing to do part 3

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But I am happy to receive PMs from anyone who still has questions on this issue, or suggestions for making the Update Service document clearer about the bug fixes.

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Once again a thread has been closed by Xara leaving questions unanswered and the hated update path in total confusion. Amongst TG members there a few people who match Acorns knowledge of the software. If he doesn't understand the complexities of this update feature how the hell do Xara expect the average/novice user to do so?

The response by Xara to continually close threads is unacceptable. The suggestion that members should private message Kate is also against the spirit of TG. Often I'm pm'ed by a member wanting guidance/advice and my reply is always that answering via pm's is only of benefit to you alone not the wider TG membership.

Personally I don't want the Update Service clarified, I want it removed >:|

+1

Since Acorn had sight of the Update Service document before it was published and gave useful feedback on it, I was disappointed to find that apparently he did not understand the position on bug fixes - which is covered in the doc - but I will PM him this morning to try and see if there is still some confusion on this. If he has some constructive ideas on how the wording on this issue can be made clearer I am ready to hear them.

Is there something that you yourself do not understand on this matter Egg, some question that isn't answered by the Update Service document or that isn't clear? Or are you simply saying you don't like the Update Service, which is a different matter and not relevant or helpful in a thread which was about the particular question of bug fixes - and therefore not in itself reason to keep that thread open once the question was answered.

Does anyone else actually have an unanswered question about the bug fix policy? Has anyone actually experienced any problem with accessing bug fixes on re-installation or is this in fact a hypothetical discussion ? Is anyone else who has read the document and seen the thread still "totally confused" about the bug fix policy?

Kate Moir

Shove a padlock on this thread, too Kate. The smugness of your oblique reference to the fact that Acorn had not got a handle on the intricacies of the Update Service misses the whole point. My guess is that Acorn is light years ahead of any of us here at TG in terms of intelligence and knowledge of the product. The fact is that the Update service smacks of deviousness and is rather too similar to the Pig-in-a-Poke reference I and others made at the time of its inception. It isn't fair to the customer and besides that, it is way too expensive to keep up with the cost of receiving next to nothing in return. Tables!...Huh!

I was confused about the bug fixes, but I think I now understand it Kate - I note what you said in the other thread about not having yet made a descision regarding ver15.0/15.1 so that is ongoing

Egg has made it clear in the OP I think that this thread is broader than just bug fixes

There are two things that I strongly dislike about the update service

1] is the OCC - Acorn has gone on about this at length; to me it is a form of built in obsolescence - it would be fine if everything that was in a given version OCC persisted for the duration of your non-renewed licence as new vers of the program come out, but Acon has made it clear that that is not always the case - I deliberately don't use the OCC, because I don't wnt to find my work crippled down the line by such; it must be a real concern though for those who do

2] regression when installing on a new computer -I can see technical reasons for this being so, but you have to admit it is again a form of built in obsolescence; it's been called 'mean', be that is it may it is certainly another worry for the future of ongoing maintenance

Guys, we completely understand that some of you don't like the Update Service. The things that you don't like have been made clear many times in many other threads since the policy was introduced. We have noted them carefully, as we note all feedback in these forums, and we have passed that feedback on to Magix. But right now the policy is as described in https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...ting-Explained : the Online Content Catalog is only accessible while the Update Service is active, the program reverts to the one you purchased when your Update Service expires (with the addition of any bug fixes issued in patch updates) if you re-install after expiry. On the plus side you get access to updates as we produce them. Given that, our priority is to be as clear as possible that those are the current conditions of our product offering, so everyone can make an informed decision about whether they want it or not. I hope our new document helps with that.

What we don't want to see, and I think it's fair to say the majority of members are getting very tired of seeing - is threads with specific questions becoming a platform for a yet another discussion about the broader issues of the Update Service, where nothing new is being said. So yes, we are beginning to close threads when that happens. It doesn't mean we are ignoring your feedback about the Update Service, we have definitely heard it. But it does mean we are paying some more attention to feedback about the need to keep conversations relevant if TG is to continue to prosper.

Kate Moir

I have received and replied to Kate's PM.

I made three offers:

1. To reign in my concerns about the Update Service (US).
   
   1. I was about the only TGer who commented in depth on Xara's US document.
   
   
2. To moderate TG Xara Web Design Chat Threads without raking over old coals.
   
   1. The correct "trick" is to raise a one topic point in the Dear Xara Forum and stick to that.
   2. I will summarise the relevant points and propose that new Threads in Dear Xara are raised.
   3. My summary will be the clarion call and after a week, I may close a wandering Thread, emphasising Dear Xara is still available.
   
   
3. To offer myself available in a face-to-face at Gaddesden Place to argue our position.
   
   1. Perhaps i should seek crowd funding!

To be absolutely clear, the Xara Desktop products are world-class and do things that are difficult elsewhere. I want them to succeed but I need to preserve my livelihood too.

Acorn

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Originally Posted by webmaster

- and therefore not in itself reason to keep that thread open once the question was answered...

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I don't understand the need to KEEP closing threads, just because you think they have run their course.

If they have in fact run their course then they will just fade away since no-one will post on them. If they haven't or someone has a relevant question, then they should be allowed to continue. Just closing them arbitrarily means opening continuation threads which just gets confusing.

If a thread becomes abusive or hostile, then by all means close it, apart from that there's absolutely no harm done keeping it open.

@Keith, there is a genuine problem with open Threads.

First, they get too long and some people just read the last page and jump in without the whole background.
Second, they diverge. All Threads drift so the original point is lost.
Third, they attract spammers. Old Threads are resurrected for no reason so tint the current Forum spirit.

A Thread should be closed when it is spent. There is a fine distinction as to when this is but I would never close one without warning unless there whole thing has gone critical; I would rather soft-Delete the Thread and let the Admin restore it with the vitriol diluted.

Acorn

ok Kate - you know from wht you have said, and what other Xara employees have said i get the distinct impression that Magix is in control... sure you do the coding for the desktop programs, but in every other regard you have to abide by what Magix are prepared to do/accept/facilitate.... it's their update process

maybe you should have a 'Dear Magix' forum on TG?